Iga_Bobovic said:

SteelAttack said:

And Mario Kart is to racers what Brawl is to Virtua Fighter or Tekken or Street Fighter. So spare me that shit.

I don't get this one, please explain

Both MK and Brawl are SHIT. Want me to be any more clear?

Ok, I'll try to explain. They don't belong in the same genre. Taking many features from both the racing and fighting genres, both franchises ended up crafting a whole different beast altogether, with their own sled of strenghts and weaknesses. That is not a bad thing in itself, because it shows Nintendo's strive to reimagine established genres and adding their own spin to them. They are not inferior or equal or superior, just a different take on those genres.

They are still SHIT, though.

SteelAttack said:

Iga_Bobovic said:

SteelAttack said:

And Mario Kart is to racers what Brawl is to Virtua Fighter or Tekken or Street Fighter. So spare me that shit.

I don't get this one, please explain

Both MK and Brawl are SHIT. Want me to be any more clear?

Ok, I'll try to explain. They don't belong in the same genre. Taking many features from both the racing and fighting genres, both franchises ended up crafting a whole different beast altogether, with their own sled of strenghts and weaknesses. That is not a bad thing in itself, because it shows Nintendo's strive to reimagine established genres and adding their own spin to them. They are not inferior or equal or superior, just a different take on those genres.

They are still SHIT, though.

Like I suspected your comparison was indeed shit.

Virtua Fighter is a totally different beast than Street Fighter. So is Virtual Fighter not in the same genre either? Same for racers, there are so many different kind of racers. Arcade racers, futuristic racers, rally, sims, etc. Saying Kart is different from other racers is completely retarded, because the other racers are totally different among themselves too.

Iga_Bobovic said:

Like I suspected your comparison was indeed shit.

Virtua Fighter is a totally different beast than Street Fighter. So is Virtual Fighter not in the same genre either? Same for racers, there are so many different kind of racers. Arcade racers, futuristic racers, rally, sims, etc. Saying Kart is different from other racers is completely retarded, because the other racers are totally different among themselves too.

The setting of the games is irrelevant. The moment you insert the luck factor in detriment of skill (please note, I'm NOT saying that neither Brawl or MK are shallow or need no skill) you change the scope of the game definitely. In VF AND SF, the only thing that determines who wins and who loses is skill. In Brawl, you can always count with luck, the moving arena or external factors making your opponents lose, or a stray powerup coming your way. That makes Brawl so different from the other fighters that I mentioned.

Same goes for MK. Even purebred arcade racers like Out Run or Cruis'n share the same mindset. Skill is pivotal to winning. Not a fucking blue shell or a stray banana peel at the end of the race.

By that logic, Excitebots is in the same league as Gran Turismo. You can race. Great line of reasoning there.

Archangel3371 said:

Yeah I see his point too but you're right Smash is not shit and niether is Mario Kart. Everyone knows Dead or Alive rules all.

Well, I don't like them, therefore, they are shit. My logic is unflawed.

bugsonglass said:

gg you were right about eurogamer getting their ea tennis review wrong but who'd have thought it was because they didn't think of reviewing the retail version.  still good on them to make good though once they realised.

on racing games, maybe people's tastes are shifting in such ways that the genre on the whole will become a lot more niche as time goes on.  many games which are reviewed really well don't do well in retail.  maybe there are just too many of them being made and since it's not the kind of game that one will just play through in 10 hours and move on even genre enthusiasts don't need to buy so many of them.  they are also becoming sort of homogenised and a lot of them don't offer distinct gaming experiences

on burnout paradise, gg it's already very cheap.  maybe 15 quid for the standard edition and 18 for the one which includes the expansion.  personally i found myself wishing i could choose events like in previous burnouts as opposed to driving around town looking for them but it's nice still.

I actually like what Eurogamer have done, when they make a mistake they put their hands up and let it be known. Very nice to see that. I would love to get Burnout Paradise but I just ordered RE5 and Fallout 3 and Bash Party are next up I think.

robio said:

That dropped review from Eurogamer is something else huh?  Nice to see them own up to it instead of just sweeping it under the door and pretending like it didn't happen.   Reminds me of when Gamespot had a similar incident but didn't retract the review.  

Remember last year when Gamespot posted an abysmal 5 or 5.5 rating for Lost Winds?  The game was scoring in the 80% range nearly everywhere, and then Gamespot came along and put out the lone genuinally bad review for it.  Later on, other editors actually apologized for the review in the forums explaining that it was this particular reviewers first review and he hadn't quite learned how to review yet, but had since gotten better.  They never went full way to retract the score or review however which I never understood.

So anyway good for Eurogamer to be willing to take a second look at the game.  Should be interesting to read the next one.  Does kind of make you wonder how often this may happen for sites that don't review off of retail versions.

That happened with Lost Winds? Phew, completely over my head there.

SteelAttack said:

Iga_Bobovic said:

They are still SHIT, though.

bugsonglass said:

eurogamer had done that before.  i remember at least one game where the reviewer simply just changed his mind after playing the game much for longer and felt he had done it an injustice in the original review and just went back and did another one, explaining himself in the process.  i think zookeeper was one such game.  it's good to have that kind of integrity but they should be a bit more careful trying to get things right the first time.

I understand it, my feelings have changed on games before the more I played it. Games are anywhere between 5 and 60 hrs. You have a limited time to play them, other games that need reviewing. I think that other than short games you have to use reviews as a general guide more than anything else.

Dvader said:

GG wins the internet !!!

I see Steel's point about the racing and fighting genres (but wtf, Smash is not shit). But Iga did throw a really good counterargument.  In the end of the day what genre would you put those games into, they do fit into those genres. But i also feel we here should be smart enough to realize when we are speaking about the more traditional games in those genres. Like when someone starts talking about technical fighting games dont bring up Smash. When someone is speaking about traditional racing (you know with real cars and stuff) dont bring up Kart.

It's Bizaare talking about their Blur game, the main trick is that they've inserted a lot of Mario kart into the design. They reckon its an adult mario kart. So I think that's where they are getting this stuff from. The realistic racers aren't selling as well as they once were so they turned to mario kart and took inspiration (literally) they have said this.

BTW, I just wanted to make clear, I was only joking when I said: Blah blah. That's why I put the smiley and I am still really tired. Had a butt clenchingly long review today too. Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I will try and get a coherent reply in that thread over the weekend.

I think it would be fun to do trial threads like Judge Judy or something. Pick a game, RE5 for instance, or Phantom Hourglass. Get two opposing sides, an impartial jury (who hasn't played the game) put forward points and see who wins the argument. Would take something we all lack though: effort

Archangel3371 said:

SteelAttack said:

Archangel3371 said:

Yeah I see his point too but you're right Smash is not shit and niether is Mario Kart. Everyone knows Dead or Alive rules all.

Well, I don't like them, therefore, they are shit. My logic is unflawed.

Well I do like them, therefore, they are NOT shit. MY logic is unflawed. Also remember I am as hard as a rock, and yes that also means in my pants. Say! Say! Say! Hoooooooooooooo!

I love this place.

bugsonglass said:

the other games are:  Let's Catch. (No, but i will still get let's tap)

let's tap soothes my constant unquenchable rage