Not really much more for me to add. I think the only thing that's preventing the iPad/Phone from really making a big stab into the gaming market is the lack of a real and standardized controller. There's only so much you can do with a touchpad. Solving that issue would instantly make it a solid gaming platform. Look at the Xperia for instance. That's a solid smart phone and built for games. Still need that standardized on more than one phone though for a real impact.

However I still say what will make it take off is when someone comes up with a new way of controlling or develops a new genre to take advantage specifically of what they can do with the touchpad.

I have a question? Did mobile phones replace digital camera?

I think not. I think when we go to holiday we take with us a digital camera and take pictures, because the ease of use and higher quality. But we do not take our camera's with us all the time, so when walking on the street, sometimes unexpected things happen and we take pictures with our mobile phones.

I think the mobile phones has widened the market. We still use the digital camera for vacations and stuff like that, but we use the mobile to take picutes in our day to day life. Before we never carried the camera with us unless we knew we were going to take pictures, we still do that.

Same with handhelds. We take it with us on the plane or holiday and we use the smartphone when we wait for the bus

robio said:

Iga_Bobovic said:

I have a question? Did mobile phones replace digital camera?

I think not. I think when we go to holiday we take with us a digital camera and take pictures, because the ease of use and higher quality. But we do not take our camera's with us all the time, so when walking on the street, sometimes unexpected things happen and we take pictures with our mobile phones.

I think the mobile phones has widened the market. We still use the digital camera for vacations and stuff like that, but we use the mobile to take picutes in our day to day life. Before we never carried the camera with us unless we knew we were going to take pictures, we still do that.

Same with handhelds. We take it with us on the plane or holiday and we use the smartphone when we wait for the bus

The problem with this arguement is that the reason cell phones never replaced cameras is because they've always been of inferior quality. Cell phones have always had fewer megapixels than a regular digital camera and cannot offer the same quality picture. Cameras also offer more things like flashes and stabilization features that most cell phones do not offer. If you could get the same quality of picture from a cellphone that you could get from a camera, there's no question that people would drop cameras all together.

An iPad on the other hand has the raw power to match or exceed anything the 3DS can do, and possibily the Vita.  It's still just a matter of the controls and software library measuring up and the software is getting there. Lots of PC ports are finding their way to the tablets like Pirates and Civilization.

Can an iPad fit in your pocket?

robio said:

Iga_Bobovic said:

Can an iPad fit in your pocket?

No, but neither can the 3DS or the Vita.

Vita I agree, but 3DS is the size of a DSlite. So That can fit easily.

Iga_Bobovic said:

I have a question? Did mobile phones replace digital camera?

...

For the most part yes.  You still haev hobbyists and professionals that use stand-alone cameras, but for most people with smartphones the cameras on them are better than their regualr camera.

My view on the topic is that when smartphones are cheap enough for parents to give them to kids, dedicated handheld gaming devices are done for.  Probably some time in the next 5-7 years.

If smartphones come to replace handhelds then they will have become handhelds themselves, So I think it's more about convergence than replacement. Just like consoles are turning into full media centers. I suppose it would be more similar if some non-gaming company put out a media center with games (Apple could).

The result is the same regardless and Nintendo and especially Sony could offer such functions to fit in with expectations. Perhaps not phone functions but they all already offer Apple-like functions on their home and portable systems, from browsing to Netflix. Not as good in some ways but it's a start showing they can.

But until something like that needs to happen, I don't see any proof that smartphones/tablets/etc eat into handheld sales already. Everyone uses phones. Not everyone games. Phones will always be more popular, whether they play games or not. These days the same holds true for notebook functions Apple also offers.

That Apple's products sell so much isn't an indication that they eat into handhelds in that area outside isolated cases. At the same time the 3DS low sales also don't indicate that as they can be attributed to many other reasons. And they have a long way to go until they can support higher production value games, for which there will always be an audience. Nintendo could never make a Super Mario Galaxy if they could only sell it for $0.99.

The same goes for many more types of games. Hence why most of the compelling software on iOS is either cheap knock offs of such games or really old ports (which is risky itself as it devalues potential sequels so developers that dump their library to make a quick buck on iOS may find themselves unable to continue development on the same level with the price expectations they set just because they had already covered their costs from the more expensive original releases). You can get some compelling software with cheap development, like action RPGs, dungeon crawlers, roguelikes and adventure titles, but there will still be a huge gap in the library if Apple don't find a way to make selling in higher prices more viable. Or perhaps it will just happen by itself over time once people liken their devices more to their PCs which also offer anything from free to highly priced and even subscription based games and anything inbetween. Not to mention people will also become more informed over time. The more you use something the more you know it and shit like Rovio's turning of a free game into a slightly different industry behemoth won't be so easy anymore.

Also, with powerful processors being more and more viable for small devices, you could also end up with future notebooks overtaking closed platforms like Apple's, offering full PC capabilities in your palm, meaning you can get for free a lot of what Apple is selling, from basic functions to extra software and games. Like flash capabilities. Just because they managed to find an audience at this point in time doesn't mean the market can't evolve in ways that leave them behind too, if they don't also make necessary changes.

In the end, iPhone iPod Touch and iPad are an evolution of the iPod, with more and more functions that attract the consumers' interest, otherwise they would just stick with their original classic or nano ipods which played their music and eventually pictures and videos just fine. In the same way, new console and handheld generations add more and more than just games to the package. It's plausible that eventually they will all offer everything to varying degrees. That doesn't mean Apple or any one company caused that.

Handhelds could also merge with home systems. Once they're powerful enough you could just hook them up to your TV, wirelessly connect extra controllers and still have full HD graphics and all the expected capabilities. The PSP already tested the waters and a Vita revision could possibly do that too. A Wii U future successor could function similarly by incorporating the innards of the system on the tablet controller.

Things can change in many ways, we'll get different implementations and tests that may or may not catch on.

Foolz said:

Also, Robio, if superior quality was a hugely important point then why are film cameras dying out so quickly?

"Superior quality" is a key point, but I wasn't comparing to the maximum quality of traditional film.  Up until phones with 5 megapixel cameras became commonplace, which has been less than 2 years, the difference between a picture taken with a digitial camera and a picture taken with a cell phone was staggering. Pictures taken below at fewer than 5 megapixels cannot be printed out as a 5' x 7' without looking pixelated. That's something that anyone can see. The difference between a picture taken with a mid-grade digital camera (approximately 8 megapixels) and a regular film camera on the other hand is not so noticeable, particuarly when the pictures are being taken by an amatuer and then developed in one hour or less at the local drug-store or photomat (assuming you can find one).

The original topic is such a difficult thing to discuss, as everyone I hear talk about it always goes back to their own experiences.

I would not buy a child a $250 game device or a $400 smart phone.  But you know, let's say I get a new iPhone and now I have an old iPhone that can still run on wi-fi -- so sure I'll give that to my kid.  Number one, because that's all she or he would want, number two because the games are $1-$3 compared to $30-$40 on the DS/PSP (which he'll like lose anyway).

Game Informer dude was talking about the 3DS and kids.  He talked to his younger nephews and nieces about it.  The younger ones thought the 3DS was "just another DS" and the older ones wanted iPhones (cause once you get to 10+ you don't want 'kids' games, you want to be sophisticated and have a smartphone like the highshcoolers).

The more I think about it the more I think we'll come to see dedicated gaming systems to be as lame as these dedicated gaming systems from the 80's and 90's:

I'm not for it. I hate Apple, I hate the idea that the value of games has now dropped to essentially being free in the minds of non-gamers, I hate the fact that develpoers like EA are moving their focus away from core gaming and I hate the fact that I'll probably never see a game like Morrowind or Oblivion on the Vita because publishers won't see the financial sense in developing for gamers like me.  But I do think it's soon going to be over for hand-held gaming the way we have known it.

Foolz said:

Coexistence.

Lies.  Tell that to the people Disney fired so they could focus 100% on casual/mobile/social.

EA has now said they look to move down to 12 IP's so they can really focus on building those brands in the numerous outlets for gaming.  So in a few years we've gone from 45 or so titles made 100% for core gamers down to 12 games split amongst the core and the casual.