Foolz said:

Ravenprose said:

^ That guy screwed himself when he decided to become a pirate.

Well, sure but Nintendo screwed themselves when it comes to piracy by releasing a digital product in this day and age.

Archangel3371 said:

Foolz said:

Archangel3371 said:

Yes, nothing's a more serious crime than stealing something that doesn't actually exist!

The capitalist comment made me lol, as redistributing wealth sounds quite socialist to me!

Huh? What do you mean something that doesn't exist? Also I didn't say it was "more serious" then anything else just that I consider it a serious problem.

Yes, and I was implying in an exagerrated way that it's not a serious problem.

By it doesn't exist I mean intellectual property and copyright infringement are not tangible things. If you steal a handbag or a car (to use the DVD's analogy) that means that nobody else can have that car or handbag because it is a physical thing, where as if you pirate a game at the very worst all you can say is that the potential buying of a game did not take place, which requires a fair bit of speculation in most cases if you ask me!

I can steal anything else and simply say that I wasn't going to buy it anyway but that doesn't make it any more right.

Of course, but once again the difference is there is no tangible effect here, where as if you stole something else in another way there would be an effect other than the vague potential of a company losing money.

bugsonglass said:

i don't think it is really making an example out of the guy, nor is it really a solution because the problem is really not what they think.  as foolz alluded it is a very big stretch to say or assume that every download is a lost sale.  no doubt some of them are, but i would argue that even that number is smaller than the number of people who download, try, then go on to buy when they would have otherwised not bothered.

i'm just much more positively disposed towards companies who make light weather of the issue like for example 2D Boy or even Valve.

Archangel3371 said:

bugsonglass said:

i don't think it is really making an example out of the guy, nor is it really a solution because the problem is really not what they think.  as foolz alluded it is a very big stretch to say or assume that every download is a lost sale.  no doubt some of them are, but i would argue that even that number is smaller than the number of people who download, try, then go on to buy when they would have otherwised not bothered.

i'm just much more positively disposed towards companies who make light weather of the issue like for example 2D Boy or even Valve.

Yeah but who cares if it's a lost sale or not. What the hell gives people a right to steal something anyway? It just seems like an absurd notion. So what's a company to do? Go poll all the people who stole their product so as to determine who was going to buy it and who wasn't and then prosecute the pirate accordingly?

no, they should do whatever they think is best to get the most people to enjoy their product by legitimate means.  sometimes, unorthodox though it may seem, giving it away seemingly for free may work much better for them in the long run than prosecuting millions of people.

the law is very black and white, i'm not arguing about that.  let's just be practical.  do you think lawsuits will solve this?

Guess I was mistaken:

In case you hadn't noticed reviews for 2K's much anticipated sequel, BioShock 2 have gone live - and it's a positive set of verdicts overall.

CVG leads the charge with our 91% review, which calls 2K's sequel "a brilliant, if not-particularly-brave shooter story", "as a complement to the exciting and iconic original, it's a predictable but technically excellent second chapter to an unmissable FPS pairing."

PC Gamer adds in its own 90% review: "The mechanics that made the original BioShock such fun return, better than before. It's still better written than pretty much anything else out there. It doesn't all go to shit at the end. The multiplayer is fine. It is a great game."

PSM3 is a bit more pleased with 2K Marin and co's work, awarding a higher 93% verdict. "Unless the familiarity really gets to you, you're going to love BioShock 2," it said. "It's a lovingly crafted, carefully constructed masterpiece of narrative richness and smart game mechanics."

Official Xbox Magazine gave the sequel 9 out of 10 in its BioShock 2 review, calling the follow-up "indisputably an excellent shooter: intelligent, satisfying, and a tiny bit thought-provoking".

Finally, Xbox World 360 gave the game 90% in its review, which calls BioShock 2, "a game that tackles the imposing task of following a classic like Bioshock head-on, and in the process creates something equally as entertaining, but in subtly different ways."

Nobody thinks it's shit then. BioShock 2's Metacritic rating current stands at 88 on Xbox 360, 89 on PS3 and 91 on PC, which is less than No More Heroes Desperate Struggle.

bugsonglass said:

Archangel3371 said:

bugsonglass said:

i don't think it is really making an example out of the guy, nor is it really a solution because the problem is really not what they think.  as foolz alluded it is a very big stretch to say or assume that every download is a lost sale.  no doubt some of them are, but i would argue that even that number is smaller than the number of people who download, try, then go on to buy when they would have otherwised not bothered.

i'm just much more positively disposed towards companies who make light weather of the issue like for example 2D Boy or even Valve.

Yeah but who cares if it's a lost sale or not. What the hell gives people a right to steal something anyway? It just seems like an absurd notion. So what's a company to do? Go poll all the people who stole their product so as to determine who was going to buy it and who wasn't and then prosecute the pirate accordingly?

no, they should do whatever they think is best to get the most people to enjoy their product by legitimate means.  sometimes, unorthodox though it may seem, giving it away seemingly for free may work much better for them in the long run than prosecuting millions of people.

the law is very black and white, i'm not arguing about that.  let's just be practical.  do you think lawsuits will solve this?

Foolz said:

Archangel3371 said:

Foolz said:

Ravenprose said:

^ That guy screwed himself when he decided to become a pirate.

Well, sure but Nintendo screwed themselves when it comes to piracy by releasing a digital product in this day and age.

Archangel3371 said:

Foolz said:

Archangel3371 said:

Yes, nothing's a more serious crime than stealing something that doesn't actually exist!

The capitalist comment made me lol, as redistributing wealth sounds quite socialist to me!

Huh? What do you mean something that doesn't exist? Also I didn't say it was "more serious" then anything else just that I consider it a serious problem.

Yes, and I was implying in an exagerrated way that it's not a serious problem.

By it doesn't exist I mean intellectual property and copyright infringement are not tangible things. If you steal a handbag or a car (to use the DVD's analogy) that means that nobody else can have that car or handbag because it is a physical thing, where as if you pirate a game at the very worst all you can say is that the potential buying of a game did not take place, which requires a fair bit of speculation in most cases if you ask me!

I can steal anything else and simply say that I wasn't going to buy it anyway but that doesn't make it any more right.

Of course, but once again the difference is there is no tangible effect here, where as if you stole something else in another way there would be an effect other than the vague potential of a company losing money.

It's still a tangible product. Just because it's a product that can be easily copied makes no difference. Bottom line it's still stealing something and it's still illegal and that's all that really matters.

The key point is not that it is easily copyable, but that the copy is unrelated to any physical and thus limited number or products.

If the ethical notion of stealing was important in law, then it would logically be applied to other crimes and a whole bunch of things carried out by law would be outlawed such kidnapping, imprisonement, murder etc or even forcefully taking a percentage of someone's wages for the rest of their life.

Archangel3371 said:

Now you're just trying to twist things around in a non-sensical manner. Bottom line is it's still theft of a product and how someone can even attempt to try and rationalise it in the idealogy that it simply can't be limited to a number of availability is beyond me.

I was joking calm down.

" to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."

See, now to me the right stuff is a load of crap, but that's beside the point. Intellectual property is not actual property as far as I'm concerned, simple as that.

If you don't want anyone to be exposed to your ideas and thus keep your thoughts protected, then don't exprses them.

Foolz said:

Archangel3371 said:

Now you're just trying to twist things around in a non-sensical manner. Bottom line is it's still theft of a product and how someone can even attempt to try and rationalise it in the idealogy that it simply can't be limited to a number of availability is beyond me.

I was joking calm down.

" to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."

See, now to me the right stuff is a load of crap, but that's beside the point. Intellectual property is not actual property as far as I'm concerned, simple as that.

If you don't want anyone to be exposed to your ideas and thus keep your thoughts protected, then don't exprses them.

Archangel3371 said:

Foolz said:

Archangel3371 said:

Now you're just trying to twist things around in a non-sensical manner. Bottom line is it's still theft of a product and how someone can even attempt to try and rationalise it in the idealogy that it simply can't be limited to a number of availability is beyond me.

I was joking calm down.

" to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."

See, now to me the right stuff is a load of crap, but that's beside the point. Intellectual property is not actual property as far as I'm concerned, simple as that.

If you don't want anyone to be exposed to your ideas and thus keep your thoughts protected, then don't exprses them.

Uh yeah. What exactly was in my post that suggested I wasn't calm? How in the world can intellectual property not be considered property? So you think someone can just take something and make an exact duplicate of it and sell it, give it away, or do whatever they want with it? Hell by those standards the person ripping it off doesn't even have to give the product a new name or make any changes whatsoever to it. Yay! I'm going to go out tomorrow and sell my own console that is exactly a Wii, I'll call it the Wii, it'll play everything that Nintendo's Wii can play, and do everything exactly like a Wii. Woo hoo I'll be rich. Uh yeah that is exactly as ridiculous as it sounds.

Ever been to China?