Foolz said:Archangel3371 said:
Yeah like Raven I think Microsoft needs developers like Rare. To me it isn't a question of is Rare developing games on the wrong system it's why aren't more people who enjoy those kind of games buying a 360. There seems to be, at least to me, a pretty good diversity in software for the system both on full-retail games and XBLA games so maybe it's just perception of the system that needs to be addressed through marketing or whatever. Banjo Nuts & Bolts is a fantastic game that has a lot of charm and character and is quite graphically impressive to boot. It also went for a bargain of a price at $40 and if you consider the pre-order offer of the original Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA it was essentially $30.But Rare were bought so that people would buy the 360 for those type of games, but that hasn't happened, thus Rare is on the wrong system.
No. I simply don't understand this "They're on the wrong system mentality.". The goal of any system manufacturer is to get as many of your systems sold as possible. You can't just stick to one demographic, you need to branch out and diversify which in turn means getting a variety of developer support. Thus the question to me is "Why aren't previous Rare fans getting a 360 to play their games on?".
gamingeek said:...I've yet to hear of someone who bought this game that didn't play the originals on N64. Which makes them quite old or older, which means they may have moved onto other genres. Or the N64 audience might still be with Nintendo? Let's talk about future style. Should Rare games always be accesible? What if they started making sci-fi RTS games? What if they went and did puzzle games instead?Aspro says: (screwed up the quote system)Okay so who was Rare's audience back in the day? People who played DKCountry? Well that was everyone, I mean I knew a 60+ year old who played it and a 8 year old who gave me a cheat code for it she learnt at school (BARRAL). And then there were plenty of kids and hipsters like me who could not believe the graphics our old SNES machines were capable of. So, in that era Rare was pretty accessible.I can think of similar stories in the N64 era, about Goldeneye and DK64. KI and Conker was as "hardcore" (is it possible to use that term without quotation marks anymore?). Both of the Perfect Dark games were clearly errors. So where do we go from here?Well I think that most people who remember Rare are now on the DS or the 360.So those would be the platforms to focus on. In terms of gameplay? I think that both Conker and Kameo struck the balance the between where they were and where they need to be. I'd go third person fantasy action on the 360 and on the DS maybe go with some "Chinatown" revolutionaty re-takes of their previously popular franchises.
Archangel3371 said:No. I simply don't understand this "They're on the wrong system mentality.". The goal of any system manufacturer is to get as many of your systems sold as possible. You can't just stick to one demographic, you need to branch out and diversify which in turn means getting a variety of developer support. Thus the question to me is "Why aren't previous Rare fans getting a 360 to play their games on?".Foolz said:Archangel3371 said:
Yeah like Raven I think Microsoft needs developers like Rare. To me it isn't a question of is Rare developing games on the wrong system it's why aren't more people who enjoy those kind of games buying a 360. There seems to be, at least to me, a pretty good diversity in software for the system both on full-retail games and XBLA games so maybe it's just perception of the system that needs to be addressed through marketing or whatever. Banjo Nuts & Bolts is a fantastic game that has a lot of charm and character and is quite graphically impressive to boot. It also went for a bargain of a price at $40 and if you consider the pre-order offer of the original Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA it was essentially $30.But Rare were bought so that people would buy the 360 for those type of games, but that hasn't happened, thus Rare is on the wrong system.
Because then they'd only have one game every few years that appealed to them. 
Archangel3371 said:No. I simply don't understand this "They're on the wrong system mentality.". The goal of any system manufacturer is to get as many of your systems sold as possible. You can't just stick to one demographic, you need to branch out and diversify which in turn means getting a variety of developer support. Thus the question to me is "Why aren't previous Rare fans getting a 360 to play their games on?".Foolz said:Archangel3371 said:
Yeah like Raven I think Microsoft needs developers like Rare. To me it isn't a question of is Rare developing games on the wrong system it's why aren't more people who enjoy those kind of games buying a 360. There seems to be, at least to me, a pretty good diversity in software for the system both on full-retail games and XBLA games so maybe it's just perception of the system that needs to be addressed through marketing or whatever. Banjo Nuts & Bolts is a fantastic game that has a lot of charm and character and is quite graphically impressive to boot. It also went for a bargain of a price at $40 and if you consider the pre-order offer of the original Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA it was essentially $30.But Rare were bought so that people would buy the 360 for those type of games, but that hasn't happened, thus Rare is on the wrong system.
i feel that is a question that applies to me, as someone who has enjoyed Rare's games very much in the past and who would have got their recent games if I had a 360. The answer is, it's not quite enough of a draw. There is no doubt that i would have got their games if I had the system, but I wouldn't buy a system for just 2-3 games (well that is not strictly true, I would but not for those particular 2-3 games). There are a lot of other issues which sway my decision towards getting a ps3 when the time comes for me to get an HD console. 1st party sony games are obviously a huge draw: the new god of war, the new team ICO game, little big planet, even PSN games like flower and noby noby boy are much more desirable to me than anything on the 360 ... including Rare's games. They are the kind of game which would be nice to have, but the urge is not so strong that i would get a console for (especially one with so many serious hardware issues which is another deal breaker for me).
___
Listen to Wu-Tang and watch Kung-Fu
Archangel3371 said:
Yeah like Raven I think Microsoft needs developers like Rare. To me it isn't a question of is Rare developing games on the wrong system it's why aren't more people who enjoy those kind of games buying a 360. There seems to be, at least to me, a pretty good diversity in software for the system both on full-retail games and XBLA games so maybe it's just perception of the system that needs to be addressed through marketing or whatever. Banjo Nuts & Bolts is a fantastic game that has a lot of charm and character and is quite graphically impressive to boot. It also went for a bargain of a price at $40 and if you consider the pre-order offer of the original Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA it was essentially $30.
I think that Download services are still in the realm of the hardcore, because simply setting the system up for a net connection is too much for most casuals. So I'm not sure that the casual games on XBLA mean anything to your average family friendly consumer. I guess a better question would be why gamers who already own a 360, don't buy Rare games anymore.
From my perspective if Banjo was a straight up platformer it would be mine. If Viva seemed more accesible and was effectively marketed in terms of easily getting across what it was in less than an essay. I suppose I might consider it.
Peter Moore questioned Rare's relevancy a few months back. I think he had a point.
ASK_Story said:I think Rare's in a tough situation. They imprinted their own image for so long I think it'd be tough for them to all of a sudden do mature games and find success. But I think it's Rare's own fault. One of my biggest beefs with Perfect Dark Zero is Joanna Dark's design. She looks like a Saturday morning cartoon character whereas during the N64, she looked more realistic. I think people were a little turned off by that. I know I was. Also, their game designing has been in a rut lately and I know many people were disappointed with PDZero.
And yes, they are on the wrong system. Games like Viva Pinata, Banjo, and Kameo aren't very good for 360's demographic. Is there any other kiddy friendly game on 360 that's successful? I can't think of any.
Rare's biggest problem is they're trying to be like Nintendo without Nintendo. I think Rare needs Nintendo more than they think.
Has Rare been an exception when it comes to 2nd party Nintendo though? Like a perfect compliment? The Nintendo branding hasn't helped other games like Eternal Darkness or Geist for instance. Is it just a case of two companies just suiting each other more?
Archangel3371 said:No. I simply don't understand this "They're on the wrong system mentality.". The goal of any system manufacturer is to get as many of your systems sold as possible. You can't just stick to one demographic, you need to branch out and diversify which in turn means getting a variety of developer support. Thus the question to me is "Why aren't previous Rare fans getting a 360 to play their games on?".Foolz said:Archangel3371 said:
Yeah like Raven I think Microsoft needs developers like Rare. To me it isn't a question of is Rare developing games on the wrong system it's why aren't more people who enjoy those kind of games buying a 360. There seems to be, at least to me, a pretty good diversity in software for the system both on full-retail games and XBLA games so maybe it's just perception of the system that needs to be addressed through marketing or whatever. Banjo Nuts & Bolts is a fantastic game that has a lot of charm and character and is quite graphically impressive to boot. It also went for a bargain of a price at $40 and if you consider the pre-order offer of the original Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA it was essentially $30.But Rare were bought so that people would buy the 360 for those type of games, but that hasn't happened, thus Rare is on the wrong system.
Maybe the answer is that Rare isn't enough? MS need to get more casual content other than Rares to convince people that its family friendly? Like Nintendo need more blockbusters to convince the blockbuster gamers?
ASPRO
I had to squint to read it! Your ideas are good. I remember playing banjo gba and it was actually pretty good.
I always believed that the things that happen during and shortly after the launch of a console will define the image of the console. Once the image is set, it is very difficult to get rid of. So the 360 is known as the Male Testosterone driven console, this image will probably stay. Maybe Rare would do better if Viva Pinata and Banjo Kazooie were available at launch together with Kameo.
Another problem is that Microsoft started marketing the 360 for the male audiences. Now they try to broaden the marketing, but once a image is set it is very difficult to get rid of.
So the problem with Rare is that their games are not really something that the 360 audience wants. Thus Rare/Microsoft would need to create a new audience. This is way too difficult just for Rare alone.
gamingeek said:From my perspective if Banjo was a straight up platformer it would be mine.
This seems to be true for most Banjo fans, and may be the real reason Banjo 3 failed. Fans wanted a platformer like the N64 Banjo games, but Rare gave them something completely different.
Ravenprose said:gamingeek said:From my perspective if Banjo was a straight up platformer it would be mine.
This seems to be true for most Banjo fans, and may be the real reason Banjo 3 failed. Fans wanted a platformer like the N64 Banjo games, but Rare gave them something completely different.
You know, I can't blame them. If you are going to call it a Banjo game, people are going to expect a Banjo game. If you are making something completely different, why not just make a new IP?
Iga_Bobovic said:Ravenprose said:gamingeek said:From my perspective if Banjo was a straight up platformer it would be mine.
This seems to be true for most Banjo fans, and may be the real reason Banjo 3 failed. Fans wanted a platformer like the N64 Banjo games, but Rare gave them something completely different.
You know, I can't blame them. If you are going to call it a Banjo game, people are going to expect a Banjo game. If you are making something completely different, why not just make a new IP?
Agreed.
Well either way I am very interested in seeing what kind of products come from Rare now with this change of attitude.
So do you think they will change visually and keep the same sort of gameplay or actually branch out genre wise?
Rare making an original RPG type game?
gamingeek said:So do you think they will change visually and keep the same sort of gameplay or actually branch out genre wise?
Rare making an original RPG type game?
RPG? *shudders* I hope not. Don't we have enough RPGs already? I also hope they don't change too much visually. If they go with that nasty grey/brown color scheme that 99% of the other 360 games have, then I'll curse them!
I want an new Killer Instinct, Battle Toads, Perfect Dark, and a new IP from Rare. 
Copied from the Pachter Wannabee thread
Okay Rare analysis
Banjo: Nuts & Bolts - 154k
Viva Pinata 2 - 80k
Very bad, we know that Perfect Dark sold more than a million worldwide. So Banjo and Pinata might be to kiddy for the "manly" crowd.
My prediction Rare will focus on their more edgier IP's like BlastCorps, Killer Instinct and Perfect Dark.
gamingeek said:Well they wanted to make something new. I admire that, I like when developers try to innovate their franchises. But the bad thing is that when it works, its great, when it doesn't... well the opposite.
I said earlier I would've enjoyed Nuts and Bolts a little more if there was more variety. It was a big turnoff to have to race for nearly every objective.
travo said:gamingeek said:Well they wanted to make something new. I admire that, I like when developers try to innovate their franchises. But the bad thing is that when it works, its great, when it doesn't... well the opposite.I said earlier I would've enjoyed Nuts and Bolts a little more if there was more variety. It was a big turnoff to have to race for nearly every objective.
Ah right. I see.
Ravenprose said:gamingeek said:So do you think they will change visually and keep the same sort of gameplay or actually branch out genre wise?
Rare making an original RPG type game?
RPG? *shudders* I hope not. Don't we have enough RPGs already? I also hope they don't change too much visually. If they go with that nasty grey/brown color scheme that 99% of the other 360 games have, then I'll curse them!
I want an new Killer Instinct, Battle Toads, Perfect Dark, and a new IP from Rare.
Do any of Rare's franchises have any sort of market value now though? Isn't Killer Instinct long dead? How many gamers who arent our age are even going to care about stuff like that? I think they need to do all new stuff, maybe aged up for the audience to re-establish themselves with new franchises. If Banjo can't sell, what can?
But Rare were bought so that people would buy the 360 for those type of games, but that hasn't happened, thus Rare is on the wrong system.