phantom_leo said:...but then I wouldn't be able to play it!
Well it doesn't need to be as deep as DMC, just have the ease of control and fast paced action.
phantom_leo said:I don't understand the need for locked (is that how Yoda refers to it?) animation in this day and age. Having to watch the entire animation play out when you already know you missed... in ANY game is weird to me.
I comes up in rants about Prince of Persia, I probably called it locked in at some point, but the terminology doesn't matter.
Calling it weird is too forgiving. It's inherently bad design because it affects responsiveness. If you're using an application on your computer and it delays several seconds before it reacts to your input, it's a poorly design application. Just making it look pretty doesn't forgive the fact that your game is ignoring the user. If you need there to be a delay before further action, it should give you feedback, like modifying the animation to look like the character trying to continue but not being able to or something to the effect.
No idea of the context in the game, but the problem you describe is a problem, not just a design preference.
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Agnates said:Because your mistakes must have consequences to get you to become better and stop making mistakes. The animation that plays out whether you managed the hit or not is the consequence. You had an opportunity to strike and cause damage, you messed up, and that opportunity is now gone, you can't just cancel it, correct yourelf, and swing again as if the mistake didn't happen, with just a split second delay. And if that opportunity was one of those strike or be struck situations (for example a perfectly timed charged attack on a monster's head, which would make it stagger and stop its own attack), tough luck, next time you won't do that mistake. Hopefully. It's just a nearly perfectly executed fighting system, like only CAPCOM knows how to craft. Think Street Fighter when you play, not God of War. If you waste your super, tough shit, it's gone, and the dude that dodges it WILL retaliate and own you. And next time you won't waste your super like that and will save it for the perfect moment instead. Or get owned.
My guess is that in Price of Persia it has more to do with drawn-out acrobatic moves or something (I remember the wall running and other such moves in the last PoP not being as responsive as in Sands of Time, making it feel like a QTE than actually performing the moves), than just your sword slashes being performed in this manner.
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Agnates said:It doesn't make them less responsive, it makes them different. Almost (just in case there is one I can't think of right now) all beat 'em ups have animations that carry on whether you made a succesful hit or not, and you can't move at the same time as doing a move as clearly your dude is focusing on performing a particular technique instead. So clearly it's not always bad design and it does depend on the specific game's context. And in MH's case, it's a design choice, not a design flaw, to offer the intended experience.
Intended does not mean good. As mentioned, it's not a matter of having an interruptible sequence, but one that ignores the user. If nothing the user does affects, in any way, what is happening during a sequence that the user is supposedly in control of, that is pretty much the definition of unresponsive.
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Agnates said:So, again, you find all beat 'em ups like Street Fighter flawed, since if you perform a move, that move is performed and you have no control for its duration, whether that duration is a split second, or for certain moves, longer?
Those moves last less than a second, in MH an attack animation can go on for two seconds or more. Big difference.
And plenty weapons/moves that are speedier in MH. So, I'm sorry it has variety?
It's the same concept, just in fast forward for SF, thinking the timing needed for your attacks in split seconds, while in MH the pace is slower, and you think of the same type of timing, but with more obvious exagerated measures.
Still, you act like the Great Sword (or Hammer) is your only choice. If you can't get used to how slow it is, to counter its superior power, don't use it. It's a weapon that basically does only super attacks. It has a power of say 500 or more early on in the game, when a sword + shield of similar progress will have barely 100. So, yes, using a Great Sword makes you the slow, unwieldy, but insanely powerful fighter it implies, and you need to use it with more planning than usual. It's the rocket launcher of the melee weapons. The rocket doesn't travel fast as a bullet, and you have a long reload afterwards, but it's certainly worth it if you're against a tank or whatever.
You might finish a fight in 5 (full charge) hits, but yes, those 5 hits may take as long as 50 by the sword + shield, exactly because you can't just button mash and attack all the time, as the monster will easily dodge you in that case. You have to watch the enemy's movements and perform the attack at the right time.
Most of the time you'll have your weapon sheathed, even, to allow for greater mobility and to get in position easier.
At first the "right time" will be when you dodge a monster's attack going behind it, which means that it will likely turn around to face you next, giving you time to charge an attack and strike its head. With more experience, the "right time" will be as a monster charges at you, hitting it just before it hits you, making it stagger back. And so on and so forth. Different openings for different monsters, more opportunities with more experience.
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Agnates said:whether that duration is a split second, or for certain moves, longer?
Yodariquo said:and it delays several seconds before it reacts to your input
Between input and acknowledgement, the time range is about a tenth of a second before it becomes a problem for the user. An animation works as a progress bar insofar as it shows progression of a task. When it's something that goes on for an extended time, it should provide some way of acknowledging the user's input, even if it doesn't affect the user's ability to actually move.
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Tell me to get back to rewriting this site so it's not horrible on mobileThis is not any kind of expert play (but not so bad either, you can notice a couple of nice guards, and quick recoveries from slashing to rolling out of the way), there's random flailing that he shouldn't have done, getting hit where it was easy to dodge, missed opportunities for charge attacks, but anyway, it shows how slow the thing is(n't so bad). That first attack is a charge attack so while it does last long, your input does matter (hold the button to charge, release at any time to strike, though you can't hold more than a full charge as it will strike anyway).
But yeah, the demo played here also gives you superior equipment, and that's the very first boss, so it balances out some of his not so great playing skills, you'll have to play more carefully with the great sword normally, as I explained in the previous comment. But again, the Great Sword is just one of your options.
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Agnates said:And I never said it doesn't take lots of slashing. Boss fights can take 40 minutes the first time you meet them, if you don't prepare well. Hell you may also fail in killing them after an hour. But that doesn't mean the game is "nothing more than you slashing at an enemy". There's a fuckton of different tools to use, and each enemy has its own strategies. And yes they tend to involve actually hitting it with your weapons. If you wanta game that is "just" flashing, play God of War. Monster Hunter is anything but similar to such simplistic titles.
You should post like this instead of telling people to STFU.
phantom_leo said:I don't understand the need for locked (is that how Yoda refers to it?) animation in this day and age. Having to watch the entire animation play out when you already know you missed... in ANY game is weird to me.
That's the ONE and only complaint I have. Some things slow down your actions. Swinging and missing and wanting to jump out of the way to avoid a charging beast, but not being able to due to unfinished animation is a bit frustrating.
The game is so head and shoulders above anything else of this type out there at the moment where I can forgive something like this and get used to it.
Isn't this a deliberate way of balancing the mechanics? i.e get your timing right with a heavy weapon and do heavy damage. Miss and there is a penalty.
Agnates already explained it I see.
I can see why the game works in the way it does.
gamingeek said:
You should post like this instead of telling people to STFU.
I said nothing new there, this stuff has been said before, and when someone acts like this hasn't even been hinted at, and the game is some kind of alien concept, it doesn't indicate a desire for proper discussion. Imo. I mean, seriously? Acting like every attack you make leaves you immobile for a lifetime or something? Even after having already discussed this before and telling him to try the lighter weapons? That was not an attempt to discuss.
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He just expressed what he thought based on his personal experience with the demo or what he thought or feared from the full experience.
If he's wrong, tell him why like you did, but there's no need to get personal. It's no fun to read for the rest of us.
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Agnates said:It has already been explained before he even said that. This thread is full of information about the game. If he didn't care to read that information, why would I believe that he will care to read new posts with the same information? In any case, I was initially kidding, a stfu is hardly the worst thing said in these forums.
With me I find that there are games I don't care enough about to start reading details of battle systems in threads, or keep up to date on all aspects of it.
I'd like to think that if I shared a superficial opinion, people would educate me as to how that opinion is wrong, without getting personal.
I'm with you on how the game has a different type of combat and I can totally see the reasons why. Especially with that rocket launcher analogy.
I got that you were initially kidding too, that letter made me LOL.
Fuck, this guy is insane, every single step is perfectly calculated to avoid all of the oncoming attacks, and the block + counter attack is so beatifully executed. Maybe stop watching after he beats the first one, it will spoil a monster, which you've seen, but maybe not how it moves , so it will be more awesome to see it in person the first time.
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gamingeek said:He just expressed what he thought based on his personal experience with the demo or what he thought or feared from the full experience.
If he's wrong, tell him why like you did, but there's no need to get personal. It's no fun to read for the rest of us.
It did go a bit overboard so I applogize about that. The personal stuff is never good, acual game arguments I think its good and fun to see.
had my first couple of hours with the game. i did a couple of simple collection quests.
game is like a huge book which you know has great depth but starts off very slow and deliberate and not so much fun. hope i will find the patience to persevere.
i also hate the in game text. fair enough i have a shitty telly but the text is blurry and nigh illegible. i have had to sit two yards closer than i normally do just to be able to read the bloody text.
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Listen to Wu-Tang and watch Kung-Fu
robio said:For those who are playing the game online, are you playing with or without Wii Speak? I came into a bit of money and now I'm debating picking up the game, but I'm weighing the Wii Speak option and if I need it or not.
I've yet to be able to play online with anyone!
I don't have Wii Speak at the moment, but would be willing to get it if online questing was too hard to accomplish w/out it!
...but then I wouldn't be able to play it!