What is dumb about this interest is that... any car manufacturer in the world would kill to be the third best selling car manufacturer in the world, or even in the conversation for number two.

The hava great brand identity, a consistent record of performance, an IP vault second only to Disney, and most years have monster profits.

It's time we all stopped worrying about Nintendo and gaming in general. We're all cool, everyone is doing their own thing and thriving, and the form of gaming is compelling enough that even if Sony went BK, Nintendo went mobile and MS lost interest in gaming, we'd still be okay. Someone else would fill the vacuum (and I not talking about Steel using a Dyson).

aspro said:

What is dumb about this interest is that... any car manufacturer in the world would kill to be the third best selling car manufacturer in the world, or even in the conversation for number two.

The hava great brand identity, a consistent record of performance, an IP vault second only to Disney, and most years have monster profits.

It's time we all stopped worrying about Nintendo and gaming in general. We're all cool, everyone is doing their own thing and thriving, and the form of gaming is compelling enough that even if Sony went BK, Nintendo went mobile and MS lost interest in gaming, we'd still be okay. Someone else would fill the vacuum (and I not talking about Steel using a Dyson).

Third out of 12+ major manufacturers. Third out of 200+ overall.

Nintendo is third out of three major manufactureres. Third out of 10+ (including fake Chinese shit) overall?

Foolz said:

aspro said:

What is dumb about this interest is that... any car manufacturer in the world would kill to be the third best selling car manufacturer in the world, or even in the conversation for number two.

The hava great brand identity, a consistent record of performance, an IP vault second only to Disney, and most years have monster profits.

It's time we all stopped worrying about Nintendo and gaming in general. We're all cool, everyone is doing their own thing and thriving, and the form of gaming is compelling enough that even if Sony went BK, Nintendo went mobile and MS lost interest in gaming, we'd still be okay. Someone else would fill the vacuum (and I not talking about Steel using a Dyson).

Third out of 12+ major manufacturers. Third out of 200+ overall.

Nintendo is third out of three major manufactureres. Third out of 10+ (including fake Chinese shit) overall?

Still above Activision, EA, bethesda etc. etc... Only Valve would probably push them down to #4 due to Steam.

aspro said:

What is dumb about an IP vault second only to Disney

aspro said:

Also, FFS, who gives a shit about Deus Ex? True question, if you are interested in that franchise please let me know what I am missing.

What am I reading here? Human Revolution was awesome, I should have listened to people here earlier. It's like sci fi splinter cell with a bit of free roaming WRPG style.

edgecrusher said:

Their IP vault might be 2nd to Disney, but Disney doesn't have to convince people to buy a special Disney Blu Ray player to watch their stuff.


Clearly nobody is impressed with 10 million hardware units. Nobody was impressed with SEGA doing those numbers in the late 90's/early 2000s...so definitely not by Nintendo doing it today. And the majority of the gaming public doesn't appear impressed with Nintendos IP vault either.

Regarding the special Disney Bluray player, isn't that why Nintendo is going mobile, to reach the hundreds of millions of smartphone customers? Also your 10 million analogy, you are framing your argument around the current situation which disregards them selling 100 million Wiis and a gazillion DS's in the not too distant past.

SupremeAC said:

Should Nintendo lean more heavily on their IP's that might appeal to a wider audience, such as Metroid, Fzero, Wave race, 1080°,...

How does Metroid or 1080 Snowboarding reach a wider audience than Mario and Zelda? Mayber it would reach a couple of million extra customers, but in no way are those IP more appealing or inclusive.

SupremeAC said:

They're just not big enough to release all the games they're making today, for 2 different systems, AND take on even more projects with dormant IP in hopes of broadening their audience.  

And this is really the crux of the matter, Nintendo's studios all have their own IP they work on and refresh periodically. For every new major AAA, IP EAD 3 make, it means no Zelda game for 8 years as it takes them 4 years to make one game. So new massive IP, takes several years, only later do they start a new Zelda and suddenly 7 or 8 years have gone by. And what happens if the new IP is a success? Would Zelda be sidelined?

Nintendo only has 3 studios capable of making the kind of AAA megabudget titles the Xbox and PS market demands: The Zelda Team, Retro Studios and Monolithsoft.

So if you want more AAA budget games they need to acquire and expand aggressively. They have expanded to an extent in Japan, even made a new headquarters to scale up for HD development. IMO they should have bought up some of the mid-tier developers a long time ago. Eurocom would have been a great fit, Climax, Arika, IO interactive, Headstrong.

But I think fundamentally there is a gap between how Nintendo views the industry compared to mostly everybody else outside of indies. They still believe games should be games, not interactive cinematic movies. They're Pushmo, not new Tomb Raider and some people are never going to be happy with that. So they need 3rd parties to fill in the gaps, otherwise - like the current situation - those gaps are all too evident.

Lol, that is perfect!  I wish my state wasn't so backwards.  

gamingeek said:

aspro said:

Also, FFS, who gives a shit about Deus Ex? True question, if you are interested in that franchise please let me know what I am missing.

What am I reading here? Human Revolution was awesome, I should have listened to people here earlier. It's like sci fi splinter cell with a bit of free roaming WRPG style.

edgecrusher said:

Their IP vault might be 2nd to Disney, but Disney doesn't have to convince people to buy a special Disney Blu Ray player to watch their stuff.



Clearly nobody is impressed with 10 million hardware units. Nobody was impressed with SEGA doing those numbers in the late 90's/early 2000s...so definitely not by Nintendo doing it today. And the majority of the gaming public doesn't appear impressed with Nintendos IP vault either.

Regarding the special Disney Bluray player, isn't that why Nintendo is going mobile, to reach the hundreds of millions of smartphone customers? Also your 10 million analogy, you are framing your argument around the current situation which disregards them selling 100 million Wiis and a gazillion DS's in the not too distant past.

SupremeAC said:

Should Nintendo lean more heavily on their IP's that might appeal to a wider audience, such as Metroid, Fzero, Wave race, 1080°,...

How does Metroid or 1080 Snowboarding reach a wider audience than Mario and Zelda? Mayber it would reach a couple of million extra customers, but in no way are those IP more appealing or inclusive.

SupremeAC said:

They're just not big enough to release all the games they're making today, for 2 different systems, AND take on even more projects with dormant IP in hopes of broadening their audience.  

And this is really the crux of the matter, Nintendo's studios all have their own IP they work on and refresh periodically. For every new major AAA, IP EAD 3 make, it means no Zelda game for 8 years as it takes them 4 years to make one game. So new massive IP, takes several years, only later do they start a new Zelda and suddenly 7 or 8 years have gone by. And what happens if the new IP is a success? Would Zelda be sidelined?

Nintendo only has 3 studios capable of making the kind of AAA megabudget titles the Xbox and PS market demands: The Zelda Team, Retro Studios and Monolithsoft.

So if you want more AAA budget games they need to acquire and expand aggressively. They have expanded to an extent in Japan, even made a new headquarters to scale up for HD development. IMO they should have bought up some of the mid-tier developers a long time ago. Eurocom would have been a great fit, Climax, Arika, IO interactive, Headstrong.

But I think fundamentally there is a gap between how Nintendo views the industry compared to mostly everybody else outside of indies. They still believe games should be games, not interactive cinematic movies. They're Pushmo, not new Tomb Raider and some people are never going to be happy with that. So they need 3rd parties to fill in the gaps, otherwise - like the current situation - those gaps are all too evident.

1. Yes Deus Ex is badass....I love every game in the series. Have you ever played them, Aspro? If you're a fan of stealthy adventure games, RPG's, games with atmosphere, and FPS etc...more than likely you will love Deus Ex.
2. In regards to Nintendo going mobile, IDK...I haven't seen any of their mobile games yet. But I assume they decided to go mobile to try and cash in on that before having to release software on anyone else's consoles.
3. I'm not ignoring the Wii at all...and I'm not talking about handhelds. Handhelds are a different market, that's what Nintendo fails to realize sometimes. I don't give a flying fuck that they sold a billion DS or 3DS...what does that have to do with the consoles? In regards to consoles, yes the Wii sold a ton but AS I SAID, it sold a ton to people who don't really care about Nintendo or consoles in general and HAVE MOVED ON. That fad is over. It didn't sell because it was the best console or because the majority of game fanatics liked it. It sold because old people and trendy casuals thought it was neat to play Wii Sports and swing your arms around. It didn't sell because of Nintendo's IP's....if that was the case, the Gamecube and Wii U would have sold roughly as well as the Wii. So again, does Nintendo have to rely on some gimmick becoming a fad to sell a good amount of consoles these days?
4. I don't think Supreme is saying games like 1080 and F Zero reach a wider audience than Mario...and I'm not saying that either. I'm saying all those other IP's that Nintendo largely ignores outside of virtual console releases BROADEN the variety on a console and make it more appealing to a larger group of people than, say, just sticking to mostly Mario and Zelda titles over and over. Mario and Zelda fans already own a Wii U....no new games in those franchises are going to suddenly make the system sell more units. But, releasing some new games in OTHER franchises and broadening your software variety just might.
5. YES Nintendo needs 3rd-parties to fill in the gaps, just like every other system ever made. Which is why it would be nice if they stopped releasing underpowered hardware based on some kind of gimmicky controller that makes it tough for 3rd-parties to commit to. They need to make a console that is equal to the competition and a console the majority of game fans, not Nintendo fans, GAME FANS, would want to use as a primary console. Otherwise, they will never have support.

SupremeAC said:

Personally I don't think that going 3rd party would do them any good.  Just look at Sega.

I guess you can go either way on this one...hell I remember having arguments on the old Gamespot boards over this topic, over 10 years ago.

Personally, I think Nintendo would be amazing as a 3rd-party and really can't even be compared to SEGA.

#1: They're smarter than SEGA. They know how to make AAA software and their games have a ton more appeal than SEGA's games ever have. That's basically why they're still able to make consoles in the first place. Any new game from Nintendo's franchises on another console would instantly be one of the biggest games of the year on that console...and then of course you'd have Sony or Microsoft helping them out by doing some actual REAL marketing. Their games would just be opend up to a bigger userbase, and probably a lot of people who would like to play their stuff but just didn't want to buy a Nintendo console to do it.

#2: They have a shitload more money than SEGA. Let's face it, this matters. And they wouldn't have to invest tons of money into hardware anymore.

#3: Other studios would be much more open to working with Nintendo and having Nintendo publish THEIR games, or develop games jointly...knowing they had the PS or Xbox userbase to work with. It would be pretty awesome to see some of the guys at Nintendo able to work with any studio in the world on various projects.

I just can't see Nintendo breaking apart the way SEGA did. I never expected SEGA to fall as hard as they did, but it was also LOL worthy when they thought they were going to be bigger than EA or Activision when they first gave up hardware. Their software just doesn't have the appeal factor...as great as it can be, most of SEGA's stuff is niche....good god, look at their Dreamcast 1st-party library. Nintendo has appeal where SEGA really didn't.