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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:17:08
archangel3371 said:

Woo hoo! Time to fire up the MGS4/360 rumour mill again. You know what they say where there's smoke there's fire. I think the dude from Konami being interviewed let slip some info too early.

Didn't Kojima say that the game couldn't be done on 360? I think with all the high definition cutscenes, you might need Blu-Ray.

ravenprose said:

BTW, the Capcom PSN Storefront article above contains the wrong link.

.

K, I fixed it. I got the SNES version of KI BTW. What was the difference in the N64 version?

iga_bobovic said:
It is not just this game Archie. There is also OOT, Zack and Wiki, Danish cartoons and the destruction of the Budha statues in Afganistan, murder of Theo van Gogh, the list goes on.

Saw a documentary about this a couple of years back. Sometimes the reaction from some sectors of the muslim community does seem, well, overbearing. There were quite a few politicians and commentators who seem to think that some muslim organisations use regligious zealotry to quiet any kind of criticism regarding the relegion, politics or organisations involved.

I don't like insults or blasphemy or deliberately inciting hatred or offending anyone, religious or otherwise. But you see the depiction of many aspects of many other religions in the media and you don't get the same hardline reaction from those faiths.

Well, except for the Church of England complaining about a church shootout in Resistance. And even that was overblown, but then the tabloid media loves the story and the whole war of words business etc. No one else really cared.

I agree with Archie in that it was a very polite, well worded letter to Sony about LBP and Sony have taken the appropiate action. This time I don't see much of a problem with anything going on in this particular instance.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:29:56

gamingeek said:
K, I fixed it. I got the SNES version of KI BTW. What was the difference in the N64 version?

Thanks. The N64 version of KI Gold is really just a port of the Killer Instinct 2 arcade game with some extra modes added. Here's a gameplay video of KI Gold.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:40:17
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:

Actually that seems a very polite request to me. I don't want to really assume they are over sensitive myself as I am not muslim so it could very well be quite offensive to them. I'm sure each culture has different things that seem minor to others but are very important to them. It'll take less then a month to rectify and I think is a pretty noble action on Sony's behalf.

I am just going to call BS on that. If you find a game offensive, guess what? No one forces you to play it! Let other people enjoy the game, and don't force you religion on other people. The only reason Sony is fixing it, is because they fear the same thing that happened with the Danish cartoons, will happen to them. So yes, the fanatical Muslims have sand in their vagina, end of story!

Maybe, maybe not. However considering that this will have zero effect on the actual game itself the whole thing seems moot to me.

It is not just this game Archie. There is also OOT, Zack and Wiki, Danish cartoons and the destruction of the Budha statues in Afganistan, murder of Theo van Gogh, the list goes on.

Well now we're getting into different territory. I don't want to really argue who is and isn't fanatical and how wrong being a fanatical about anything can be but simply on this one aspect of having offensive lyrical content in a videogame. I mean it is from their book of religeous beliefs after all. Making the changes seem really benign and have no effect on the actual game. Sometimes it's best to just take the path of least resistance.

179417.png
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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:43:14

I have a question.

Great?

Or the Greatest?

Oh man, if there were ever a thundercats live action movie... *vomits*

EDIT: To see why Snarf is the greatest, watch this clip from 8 minutes 40 seconds:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J4-8x9Hq4Ho&feature=related

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:02:01
archangel3371 said:

Well now we're getting into different territory. I don't want to really argue who is and isn't fanatical and how wrong being a fanatical about anything can be but simply on this one aspect of having offensive lyrical content in a videogame. I mean it is from their book of religeous beliefs after all. Making the changes seem really benign and have no effect on the actual game. Sometimes it's best to just take the path of least resistance.

Disagree, we are not going into a different territory. They all have to do with Freedom of Speech. I have no problem with Sony removing content from a game because they find it not  appropriate for this game specifically. But it just can't shake the feeling, they did it because of fear of fanatical religious fascists.

About taking the path of least resistance. It can work and will work in short term, but what about long term? By giving in you might encourage these fascist to try to pull the same stunt over and over again.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:02:43
gamingeek said:

I have a question.

Great?

Or the Greatest?

Oh man, if there were ever a thundercats live action movie... *vomits*

Stop posting pictures of Satan's pet GG.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:03:54

Oh god! I go with Great. That "live" looking Snarf is hideous.

179417.png
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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:04:17
gamingeek said:

I have a question.

Great?

Or the Greatest?

Oh man, if there were ever a thundercats live action movie... *vomits*

That would be awesome! Especially if they got Ben Stiller to play as Lion-O. Nyaa

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:20:02
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:

Well now we're getting into different territory. I don't want to really argue who is and isn't fanatical and how wrong being a fanatical about anything can be but simply on this one aspect of having offensive lyrical content in a videogame. I mean it is from their book of religeous beliefs after all. Making the changes seem really benign and have no effect on the actual game. Sometimes it's best to just take the path of least resistance.

Disagree, we are not going into a different territory. They all have to do with Freedom of Speech. I have no problem with Sony removing content from a game because they find it not  appropriate for this game specifically. But it just can't shake the feeling, they did it because of fear of fanatical religious fascists.

About taking the path of least resistance. It can work and will work in short term, but what about long term? By giving in you might encourage these fascist to try to pull the same stunt over and over again.

Well just because you have a right doesn't mean you always have to use it. There is nothing to be gained from trying to stand up for this. It has no effect on the product itself. It's simply a move done out of respect. Nothing wrong with doing something simply out of respect for someone or something. You're also assuming alot on behalf of who sent the message to Sony about the issue. By all accounts it was a decent and respectful request and Sony seemed to have no problems complying with it. Also since it is Sony's product they are entilted to do with it what they see fit so I don't get why some people want to get all up and arms over something so benign as this when they don't seem to have a problem with it. They're big boy's they can take care of themselves. This change won't affect the game in any meaniful way save for a slight delay. Making some grand stand for free speech on this is pointless. You need to know when to pick your battles.

179417.png
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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:29:19
iga_bobovic said:

Stop posting pictures of Satan's pet GG.

archangel3371 said:

Oh god! I go with Great. That "live" looking Snarf is hideous.

ravenprose said:

That would be awesome! Especially if they got Ben Stiller to play as Lion-O. Nyaa

To see why Snarf is the greatest, watch this clip from 8 minutes 40 seconds:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J4-8x9Hq4Ho&feature=related

Naked in the first episode. Weird.

Suddenly a live action Thundercats doesn't seem so bad...

You guys have to watch the Snarf clip. I laughed so badly.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:36:18
archangel3371 said:
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:

Well now we're getting into different territory. I don't want to really argue who is and isn't fanatical and how wrong being a fanatical about anything can be but simply on this one aspect of having offensive lyrical content in a videogame. I mean it is from their book of religeous beliefs after all. Making the changes seem really benign and have no effect on the actual game. Sometimes it's best to just take the path of least resistance.

Disagree, we are not going into a different territory. They all have to do with Freedom of Speech. I have no problem with Sony removing content from a game because they find it not  appropriate for this game specifically. But it just can't shake the feeling, they did it because of fear of fanatical religious fascists.

About taking the path of least resistance. It can work and will work in short term, but what about long term? By giving in you might encourage these fascist to try to pull the same stunt over and over again.

Well just because you have a right doesn't mean you always have to use it. There is nothing to be gained from trying to stand up for this. It has no effect on the product itself. It's simply a move done out of respect. Nothing wrong with doing something simply out of respect for someone or something. You're also assuming alot on behalf of who sent the message to Sony about the issue. By all accounts it was a decent and respectful request and Sony seemed to have no problems complying with it. Also since it is Sony's product they are entilted to do with it what they see fit so I don't get why some people want to get all up and arms over something so benign as this when they don't seem to have a problem with it. They're big boy's they can take care of themselves. This change won't affect the game in any meaniful way save for a slight delay. Making some grand stand for free speech on this is pointless. You need to know when to pick your battles.

Please enlighten me, what am I assuming about the guy who sent the message? The fascist stuff was not aimed at him, but in a broader context.

I think Sony overreacted with withdrawing the game.

Someone at Gaf had a more  elequant solution.

Why can't they instead of having you ship all the games back and then have to wait until you get replacements, do the following instead:

1. You keep all existing stock at your store.
2. They email you a statement that you can print out and give to customers about the content that is currently in the game and that it contains material potentially offensive to Muslims.
3. You allow customers to buy existing stock and give them that statement with it. You tell the customers that an online update will fix it very soon anyway, but the statement at least makes them aware of it and that they would need the online update if they wanted it changed.
4. You tell the customers that if they find it offensive and, do not want to buy it in its current form or do not have access to online, that they can then wait a week and get one of the revised copies that Sony is sending.
5. After you receive the newly pressed disks, then you send the earlier stock back to Sony.

I can't see how the above would not be acceptable to all sides.

Oh and picking battles is for pussies. Real men fight all the time, sometimes for no reason at all!

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:48:51

LOL I remember that episode of Thundercats. Now I want to run out and get the dvd boxed sets. Ha! Safari Joe does it again! I guess a live action movie wouldn't be all bad.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:50:37
gamingeek said:
To see why Snarf is the greatest, watch this clip from 8 minutes 40 seconds:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J4-8x9Hq4Ho&feature=related

You guys have to watch the Snarf clip. I laughed so badly.

LOL "Snarf! Snarf!"

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:50:50
iga_bobovic said:

Oh and picking battles is for pussies. Real men fight all the time, sometimes for no reason at all!

LOL, you really are crazy Iga.

I think all the points that guy made on Neo would firstly draw more attention to the issue and potentially draw more lawsuits and criticism i.e Sony knew about the offensive content and still willingly sold it. Not all people are online and can get patches either.

It's better PR and probably better logistically to just bury the issue and eat the cost.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:56:54
archangel3371 said:

LOL I remember that episode of Thundercats. Now I want to run out and get the dvd boxed sets. Ha! Safari Joe does it again! I guess a live action movie wouldn't be all bad.

I got the complete season 1. Did a review on my blog recentely. It's getting better. I have to say I like Snarf more than ever for the comedy, plus he kicks ass randomly which makes him even funnier.

ravenprose said:
gamingeek said:
To see why Snarf is the greatest, watch this clip from 8 minutes 40 seconds:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J4-8x9Hq4Ho&feature=related

You guys have to watch the Snarf clip. I laughed so badly.

LOL "Snarf! Snarf!"

It's so classic as it's completely random. Snarf suddenly and inexplicably appears out of the shadows and manages to kick a bucket so hard into Safari Joe's back that he's floored LOL

The next episode is precious too. All the Thundercats but snarf are caught and imprisoned in Mumra's pyramid and it's up to snarf to break them out. There is this one shot where he is riding a giant bat to scout out Castle plundar and he comes towards the camera on the back of this bat yelling.

Hold on and I will see if I can find the clip.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:04:24
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:

Well now we're getting into different territory. I don't want to really argue who is and isn't fanatical and how wrong being a fanatical about anything can be but simply on this one aspect of having offensive lyrical content in a videogame. I mean it is from their book of religeous beliefs after all. Making the changes seem really benign and have no effect on the actual game. Sometimes it's best to just take the path of least resistance.

Disagree, we are not going into a different territory. They all have to do with Freedom of Speech. I have no problem with Sony removing content from a game because they find it not  appropriate for this game specifically. But it just can't shake the feeling, they did it because of fear of fanatical religious fascists.

About taking the path of least resistance. It can work and will work in short term, but what about long term? By giving in you might encourage these fascist to try to pull the same stunt over and over again.

Well just because you have a right doesn't mean you always have to use it. There is nothing to be gained from trying to stand up for this. It has no effect on the product itself. It's simply a move done out of respect. Nothing wrong with doing something simply out of respect for someone or something. You're also assuming alot on behalf of who sent the message to Sony about the issue. By all accounts it was a decent and respectful request and Sony seemed to have no problems complying with it. Also since it is Sony's product they are entilted to do with it what they see fit so I don't get why some people want to get all up and arms over something so benign as this when they don't seem to have a problem with it. They're big boy's they can take care of themselves. This change won't affect the game in any meaniful way save for a slight delay. Making some grand stand for free speech on this is pointless. You need to know when to pick your battles.

Please enlighten me, what am I assuming about the guy who sent the message? The fascist stuff was not aimed at him, but in a broader context.

I think Sony overreacted with withdrawing the game.

Someone at Gaf had a more  elequant solution.

Why can't they instead of having you ship all the games back and then have to wait until you get replacements, do the following instead:

1. You keep all existing stock at your store.
2. They email you a statement that you can print out and give to customers about the content that is currently in the game and that it contains material potentially offensive to Muslims.
3. You allow customers to buy existing stock and give them that statement with it. You tell the customers that an online update will fix it very soon anyway, but the statement at least makes them aware of it and that they would need the online update if they wanted it changed.
4. You tell the customers that if they find it offensive and, do not want to buy it in its current form or do not have access to online, that they can then wait a week and get one of the revised copies that Sony is sending.
5. After you receive the newly pressed disks, then you send the earlier stock back to Sony.

I can't see how the above would not be acceptable to all sides.

Oh and picking battles is for pussies. Real men fight all the time, sometimes for no reason at all!

Well it sounded like you were assuming that the guy who complained was threatening bombing them because of your broad accusation that Sony was making the changes out of fear of being attacked. I highly doubt it and I think the most likely scenario was they were simply doing so out of respect and considering the benign nature of the edit needed that putting up a fuss over it served no purpose at all.

As for that GAF poster's solution yeah I guessed that might have been ok too but they already put this current plan in motion so it's kind of pointless to change again to something else. Either way it's not some huge big deal or anything. The game is delayed slightly. Whoop-dee-do. I'll wait for something of real importance to get worked up over the issue of free speech.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:05:10
archangel3371 said:
iga_bobovic said:
archangel3371 said:

Well now we're getting into different territory. I don't want to really argue who is and isn't fanatical and how wrong being a fanatical about anything can be but simply on this one aspect of having offensive lyrical content in a videogame. I mean it is from their book of religeous beliefs after all. Making the changes seem really benign and have no effect on the actual game. Sometimes it's best to just take the path of least resistance.

Disagree, we are not going into a different territory. They all have to do with Freedom of Speech. I have no problem with Sony removing content from a game because they find it not  appropriate for this game specifically. But it just can't shake the feeling, they did it because of fear of fanatical religious fascists.

About taking the path of least resistance. It can work and will work in short term, but what about long term? By giving in you might encourage these fascist to try to pull the same stunt over and over again.

Well just because you have a right doesn't mean you always have to use it. There is nothing to be gained from trying to stand up for this. It has no effect on the product itself. It's simply a move done out of respect. Nothing wrong with doing something simply out of respect for someone or something. You're also assuming alot on behalf of who sent the message to Sony about the issue. By all accounts it was a decent and respectful request and Sony seemed to have no problems complying with it. Also since it is Sony's product they are entilted to do with it what they see fit so I don't get why some people want to get all up and arms over something so benign as this when they don't seem to have a problem with it. They're big boy's they can take care of themselves. This change won't affect the game in any meaniful way save for a slight delay. Making some grand stand for free speech on this is pointless. You need to know when to pick your battles.

I have to go with Iga on this.

It shouldn't matter whether or not anyone wants to use their right of free speech, the issue is what the repercussions are if they do use it in cases like this. While companies might remove Christian stuff from games so they don't get lawsuits filed against them or have fewer consumers purchase the game, there is, in the case of Islamic content, the additional fear that if Muslims are offended, they'll go bat shit, goat anus insane and decide to kill someone at Sony or a retail store.

While Christians in the West tend to use legal methods to resolve issues these days (whether or not they're in the wrong), we see story after story of Muslims using illegal, fatal methods to "resolve" their issues. In Britain, I believe, it has recently been made legal for Islamic sharia courts to exist and judge Muslims. I don't know if any kinds of "judgment" are off limits, but I have heard nothing good about sharia law, and have heard many horrible things about it. Europe is being Islamified and companies are afraid of even speaking about Islam for fear of something terrible happening, like what happened to the Danish cartoonist(s). Islam is still in its own dark ages, and its leaders are trying to have everything their way. But for us, it doesn't "just taste better"! By the way, did you hear about what some Muslim leader said recently about Muslim women who wear a burqa? He said that even showing two eyes is too seductive because it encourages them to use cosmetics, therefore they should only show one eye!

This is the reality of what's going on with Islam and Muslims today, and I'm almost speechless that you are only concerned about "the product" and not social or political issues such as this! Do you honestly think that if a small minority of peaceful, law-abiding, scattered Christians objected to a game's content that the publisher would be this quick and eager to comply if they knew the repercussions of noncompliance would be negligible? I certainly don't. Reports of Muslim violence, oppression, and zealotry can be found very frequently and easily these days, and I really don't think a large company like Sony would be oblivious to it.

It looks to me like you think this is benign because your mind is fixated on "the product". Well, "the product" isn't the only thing in the world that matters.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:12:56

Okay, second Snarf clip.

Watch from 4:00 minutes or for the full effect from 2:30 minutes

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tSdGibXw5lU&feature=related

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:16:01

I'd like to think that I'm more sensitive to these issues because I'm an atheist, a member of a population that is still villified in the United States (for no legitimate reason), and with which very few politicians would want to associate. Being a member of such a population in a nation that prides itself on freedom and equality, yet being subjected to the aforementioned villification, is bad enough, but then I hear about what's going on in other places around the world and it really riles me up when people take things like this so lightly. A company should not have to fear zealots, and, though I have no verification of this, I honestly do think that Sony is afraid of what might happen if they left the game as it is.

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Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:23:46

gamingeek said:
iga_bobovic said:
Oh and picking battles is for pussies. Real men fight all the time, sometimes for no reason at all!

LOL, you really are crazy Iga.

Stop being a pussy, let's fight!

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