robio said:NyxQuest - The game uses a very simple control scheme that's absolutely brilliant and I can't figure out why no one else is doing this. It's 2-D game where you use the nunchuk the control the character, while using the IR controls of the Wii mote to manipulate objects in the environment. It allows you to do some really killer things in the game and completely changes that way a 2-D game platformer is played.
Some of that got hairy, like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time. When trying to jump/glide and pull pillars underneath you in real time.
That's one of my favourite things about the pointer, being able to have traditional controls and then an extra 2nd layer of control on top, being able to sort of directly manipulate the environment.
Also, hairy, what? Does that mean bad? It was awesome and actually put your platforming and manipulating skills somewhat to the test, unlike Lost Winds which was more relaxed (the first one at least). It was great, and while not especially hard, it made you feel like you're accomplishing things when passing tricky parts.
Anyway, how about Zelda & Mario gameplay? I've yet to play a 2D or 3D platformer that has as good controls and design as a Mario title. Or an action adventure as good as Zelda. Well, ok, there was Okami, and very recently Darksiders, but generally Zelda is almost its own genre. I guess nobody wants to compete with the best.
Also, a minor thing, and not exactly what you're asking, but why the fuck does only SEGA offer calibration for their lightgun games, all the others, high profile or not (Chronicles, Extraction, etc) don't, and it just plain sucks, it makes them feel more like a Starfox type shooter where you don't even have a character or ship to control than an arcade shooter where you aim with a gun. Please let me use my handcannon with your next lightgun game, devs.
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Agnates said:Lost Winds did what NyxQuest did first. Trine also has a (tiny) bit of that funcionality. Max & the Magic Marker is similar as well, except you draw stuff instead of manipulate them. It's good stuff, but yeah, at least others devs are doing these. The new Little Big Planet will probably have such functionality as well, since it was used in some tech demos for Move (though it was kinda boring stuff, NyxQuest was more in depth, but I'm sure they'll improve). But yeah, other developers are doing it so maybe doesn't qualify for gg's request, just saying
I disagree with that. The way Nyx does it for the most part is very different than Lost Winds. In Lost Winds most of it is done separately from the character. You're using wind to throw objects around or to give Toku a boost.
NyxQuest does more what I could call "cooperative control". You're manipulating the environment in tandem with the character. You're moving a platform along, while moving Nyx back and forth on it to dodge enemies or other obstacles. It requires the player to focus on at least two things that need to be controlled whereas Lost Winds has the player handlings the obstacles on step at a time. Really I think the only thing the two games have in common is how you manipulate fire.
As far as Max goes, I'd say that's something else entirely. But even looking at the similarities I'd say that once again it's more of an example of step by step gameplay or creating a cause to make an effect rather than cooperative control.
I'd go with NyxQuest as well, but since robio beat me to it, I'll choose Wii Sports Resort Airplane. For those that haven't played it, you hold the Wii Remote like you would hold a paper airplane, and tilting up/down/left/right causes your plane to climb/decend/bank left/bank right; tilting the Remote quickly to the left or right causes your plane to spin left/right, thrusting the Remote forward or backward increases/decreases the throttle, and pressing the A-button with your index finger allows you to shoot. It's a very, very simple flight control scheme that works perfectly, and everyone I've seen that tried it--gamer or not--immediately understood how to control the plane, and did so well. It's a brilliant way to play flying games, and I'd love to see more games that use that control method (Star Fox and Pilotwings, Nintendo!).
SteelAttack said:Elebits. I don't know if this is too hard to implement within another genre, but how come we haven't seen 3D object manipulation as deep and responsive as seen in a 4-5 yr old game?The way you can interact freely with almost any object inside the rooms, opening doors, drawers and handling all kinds of objects with realistic motions and physics is mind bending, and makes you wonder how could an adventure or survival horror game be improved with 3D object manipulation puzzles.
Beat me to it.
SteelAttack said:Elebits. I don't know if this is too hard to implement within another genre, but how come we haven't seen 3D object manipulation as deep and responsive as seen in a 4-5 yr old game?The way you can interact freely with almost any object inside the rooms, opening doors, drawers and handling all kinds of objects with realistic motions and physics is mind bending, and makes you wonder how could an adventure or survival horror game be improved with 3D object manipulation puzzles.
GG is that you?
Actually there were games last gen that had telekinetic manipulation, like Second Sight and Psi-Ops. They bombed horribly!
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bugsonglass said:So far all the games mentioned in this thread have been on nintendo platforms exclusively. if i didn't know you better i'd think you guys are nintendocentric
bugsonglass said:So far all the games mentioned in this thread have been on nintendo platforms exclusively. if i didn't know you better i'd think you guys are nintendocentric
Well to be fair all other consoles are doing stuff we have been doing for years, just soo much prettier. So pretty. So so pretty.
Dvader said:Well to be fair all other consoles are doing stuff we have been doing for years, just soo much prettier. So pretty. So so pretty.
Pretty? Yes, but they're boring in bed.
Agnates said:
Also, hairy, what? Does that mean bad?
No, Brits say hairy when things get a bit rough, errrrr better way to explain it is when you run into a tough spot in a game. It's a bit hairy.
Specifically the bits in Nyxquest which had you jumping off a platform, gliding over spikes and dragging the platform underneath you with the pointer. Bit like rubbing your belly and patting your head at the same time. I had to sort of retrain my brain to multitask.
Ravenprose said:
I'd go with NyxQuest as well, but since robio beat me to it, I'll choose Wii Sports Resort Airplane. It's a brilliant way to play flying games, and I'd love to see more games that use that control method (Star Fox and Pilotwings, Nintendo!).
I haven't played it, but I'm guessing most people would prefer a more accurate method like IR or analogue stick. Especially since flight games tend to be combat based. If it was just a flight game like pilotwings I could see it being used a lot.
SteelAttack said:Elebits. I don't know if this is too hard to implement within another genre, but how come we haven't seen 3D object manipulation as deep and responsive as seen in a 4-5 yr old game?The way you can interact freely with almost any object inside the rooms, opening doors, drawers and handling all kinds of objects with realistic motions and physics is mind bending, and makes you wonder how could an adventure or survival horror game be improved with 3D object manipulation puzzles.
That game is like, I don't know how to describe it. It's good as much, for its potential mechanics to be used in other genres, as it is good in itself. I've been wanting a detective game with these mechanics for years.
People forget, that the sensor bar and IR aren't just there for shooting. The sensor bar tracks the position of the remote in the room (as long as you are pointing at the screen) and allows movement along the Z-axis, into and out of the screen. As well as tracking rotation more accurately than the remote alone.
Where everyone else is using motion as a blunt waggle like tool, or just using IR like a mouse. This underappreciated launch game was doing true 3D control of the future. And everyone ignored it. So sad.
It could be improved a lot too, like FPS have been refined since launch and have a better graphics and physics engine.
Ravenprose said:Pretty? Yes, but they're boring in bed.
I always sleep with my consoles.
What about mechanics that have been widely adopted?
Stealth is the one I can think of. Popularised by Metal Gear and then done with proper controls and camera angles in Splinter Cell. It's used widely and pretty well for the most part.
gamingeek said:What about mechanics that have been widely adopted?
Stealth is the one I can think of. Popularised by Metal Gear and then done with proper controls and camera angles in Splinter Cell. It's used widely and pretty well for the most part.
The cover mechanism has become a part of FPS that was not prevalent until Gears of War. (It was in switch.kill). It was a real shock to the system the first time you tried it, as up until that point FPS was essentially run and gun, but by introducing cover it made the genre slightly more realistic. Halo Reach is going to introduce a block mechanism, that I can see being widely adopted pretty soon after.
The other mechanic that Gears also introduced that has been widely adopted is the "walk slow with finger to ear while we load the next level".
aspro said:The other mechanic that Gears also introduced that has been widely adopted is the "walk slow with finger to ear while we load the next level".
Gears introduced that? I can think of a few games that use it, including Gears, NMH, Arkham Asylum and Silent Hill Shattered Memories. Who did it first? I find it kinda annoying in normal games, but in wii games where you are using the controller as a cellphone it's fun as the sound is coming out of the speaker.
gamingeek said:aspro said:The other mechanic that Gears also introduced that has been widely adopted is the "walk slow with finger to ear while we load the next level".
Gears introduced that? I can think of a few games that use it, including Gears, NMH, Arkham Asylum and Silent Hill Shattered Memories. Who did it first? I find it kinda annoying in normal games, but in wii games where you are using the controller as a cellphone it's fun as the sound is coming out of the speaker.
Gears is the one widely credited with doing it first -- it came before those other games you mentioned.
Back to you original question. Seaman on the Dreamcast certainly had me thinking "no-one has done this before". Raising a fish-like creature from an egg that had the voice of Leonard Nimoy and used voice recognition to work.... that was pretty original. And it actually worked quite well. He also used the Psychomantis trick, and if you had been playing other games he comment on those games and have a tantrum about being neglected. I thought this would be the first of many -- I mean they made a microphone for it -- but alas, it was not to be.
I think something else that hasn't really been adopted was the photo game like Pokemon Snap. I guess we had Afrika and Animal Kingdom: Wildlife Expedition (easily the worst game I've ever played).
I think what the latter two missed though was a sense of urgency that Pokemon Snap had. Because Snap was on rails you only had a limited time to get your pictures so there was very much a feeling of "I've got one chance to get this right." Love to see a new version of that game either a longer console version or a Wiiware version.
Have you ever played a game that had something new or something so well done, it made you wonder why no one else was doing it?
I can think of a few examples but the one that sticks out in my mind is Metroid Prime.
The 3D map. It's still the best in game map I have ever seen in an age when many are still making rudimentary 2D maps.
Easily being able to tell where I am and where I want to go, as well as having entrance and exits clearly marked, inclines, where I can go, where I can't. Being able to rotate and zoom it, change the angle.
How can a map be amazing? Well this is.
The second thing is the Metroid Prime visor. Batman recentely uses it but its a system that many games could benefit from. Have you ever wandered into an area and been stuck for ages only to go: "Doh! That's what I was supposed to do!"
Playing a game is often you trying to work out what obscure logic the developer want you to think to work out an environment. With the Prime visor you could instantly get a developers eye view of the environment, gain valuable information about enemies and locations as well being able to solve puzzles too.
All sorts of effects could also be used to create hidden environments and objects.
So what are your games and mechanic choices? I was going to do Elebits, but that game and Steel's post is what inspired this post.