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Wall Street Journal confirms Xbox motion control rumors...
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Tue, 12 May 2009 23:31:23
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My very first VG Press thread!

Wall Street Journal Confirms Xbox Motion Camera

They say it will be shown at E3 and it might not be available until 2010.  I can't wait to see the E3 demonstration.  They might beat Cammy at her own game when it comes to giving horrible E3 presentations.
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Tue, 12 May 2009 23:41:01
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As long as it's an optional peripherial, then I'm all for it. I'll just stick with my standard controller, though. Happy
Edited: Tue, 12 May 2009 23:47:33

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Wed, 13 May 2009 00:25:17
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I want IR not waggle.
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Wed, 13 May 2009 01:30:58
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Yeah. 360 fans want motion controlled games.  Nice call.  
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Wed, 13 May 2009 02:43:05
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robio said:
Yeah. 360 fans want motion controlled games.  Nice call.  

If you want a vision of hell, think of a conference room at Rare where they are brainstorming what to do with the new peripheral.

And Raggggs -- awesome to see you here.

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Wed, 13 May 2009 04:42:24
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DAMN YOU WII FIT!

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Wed, 13 May 2009 11:15:31
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rragnaar said:
 They might beat Cammy at her own game when it comes to giving horrible E3 presentations.

 If only they would just "beat Cammy."

Payback for last year, biyatch!

Anyhow, there has to be a physical manifestation of an object in your hands. I can't be prentending to pull the trigger of a gun or waving my arm around with nothing in my hand pretending to be a swordfighter. 

Hopefully, now all 3 systems can do head tracking we will FUCKING SEE  some headtracking finally! Motion control in 360 games is useless to me though as the 360 is my bedroom system and I can't lie in bed and waggle (heh heh) and not in a room the size of a toilet. 

Edited: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:16:49

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Wed, 13 May 2009 13:32:45
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aspro73 said:
robio said:
Yeah. 360 fans want motion controlled games.  Nice call.  

If you want a vision of hell, think of a conference room at Rare where they are brainstorming what to do with the new peripheral.

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Wed, 13 May 2009 13:43:39
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I think it may work like the old SOny patent where that camera tracked the pink ball? It means the controller would have to be in two parts, the camera acting as an advanced sensor bar and then you have a controller for button inputs like wii. Or they relegate it to casual arm waving minigames only. 

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Wed, 13 May 2009 15:23:49

I can see it now...

Gears of Waggle

Call of Duty : Waggle (and grenade) Warfare

Dead Rising 3: Waggle 'til Your Drop

Left 2 Waggle

Tom Clancy’s Waggle Cell

Top Spin 4

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Wed, 13 May 2009 15:35:16

Coopersville said:

I can see it now...

Gears of Waggle

Call of Duty : Waggle (and grenade) Warfare

Dead Rising 3: Waggle 'til Your Drop

Left 2 Waggle

Tom Clancy’s Waggle Cell

Top Spin 4

Ironically IR would make all the FPS there play a lot better.

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Wed, 13 May 2009 21:05:34

Personally I think this could be incredibly cool and can lead to some "Minority Report" kind of mechanics. I'm really looking forward to it's unveiling.

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Wed, 13 May 2009 21:09:17

So lets move the discussion onwards asswads. 

1. How do you think it will be introduced and sold? What do you think is the best way for it to happen?

2. What effect, if any do you see it having on the fortunes of MS or the competition?

3. Do you see developers adopting it en masse?

4. Do you see any Wii to 360 ports in the future or more shared platform games?

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Wed, 13 May 2009 21:38:01

1.  Periphereals are not the hard sell that they once were as has been proven by the Guitar Hero controller, Balance Board, and Wii Steering Wheel.  But it sure as hell better come bundled with kick ass game with lots of appeal.  If it doesn't have a must own game along side it, it's dead in the water no matter how impressive the technology.

Frankly though, I still have huge reservations that Microsoft can pull this off.  Guitar Hero and it's controller had the advantage of a huge install base.  MS has maybe half of that at best. Probably closer to a third of the size.  Plus, I think the MS userbase is the most traditional of all and the least likely to try a new control scheme.  I've got nothing to back that up with mind you except for what I've gathered throughout the years from X-box message boards.

3.  No developer is going to jump on board at the beginning.  Just look at the Wii's periphreals.  The balance board has an install base of like 20 million, and almost nothing of value to use it with outside of the Wii Ski games and those were cheap to make.  360 games carry a lot heavier of a price tag to develop.  Unless MS pays for the development costs there won't be much for this.

4.  Too soon to tell.  There are still a lot of questions regarding how MS' motion controls will work.  But frankly I doubt it'll happen. Most 3rd parties have yet to really have a great showing with their games on the Wii.  None of them will be too quick to jump over to share a game that will have an extremely limited userbase for quite some time.

Edited: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:39:04
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Wed, 13 May 2009 21:39:21

gamingeek said:

So lets move the discussion onwards asswads. 

1. How do you think it will be introduced and sold? What do you think is the best way for it to happen?

2. What effect, if any do you see it having on the fortunes of MS or the competition?

3. Do you see developers adopting it en masse?

4. Do you see any Wii to 360 ports in the future or more shared platform games?

 

Well to be honest none of those can be answer until we actually see how this thing will function at least.

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Wed, 13 May 2009 21:43:03

Dvader said:
I want IR not waggle.

IR uses a camera and infrared signals. Waggle uses accelerometer and a gyroscope (wiimotionplus) 

The new Microsoft system uses a camera, so how is it waggle?

If you want to point, point with your finger and yell bang bang to shoot.

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Wed, 13 May 2009 21:57:10

Archangel3371 said:
 Well to be honest none of those can be answer until we actually see how this thing will function at least.

 Well, we can make an educated guess! Check the info/rumour we have now

Iga_Bobovic said:

gamingeek said:

360 to get full body control

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/01/xbox-360-to-get-motion-sensing-add-on-with-full-body-game-contro/

Here's a wild one. We just got a tip from someone who purports to be in the know on Microsoft's efforts to beat the Wii at its own motion-sensing game, with some of the details lining up with what we were hearing last year along these lines. The word is that Microsoft is building a "sensor bar" of sorts, but instead of detecting the waggles of Wiimote-like controllers, it detects full body movement and sound, sans controllers. There are two sensors on the bar, along with a mic and a camera, and while our tipster has "no idea" how it actually works, it sounds pretty impressive. Here's a quick rundown of capabilities mentioned:

Full body and hand gesture control of games / characters.
In fighting games you kick, punch, duck, dive, jump and so forth with your body.
It also picks up small hand gestures like pinching, grabbing and scrolling.
There will also be video conferencing and games with video.
Trivia game over the internet with live images of each person playing. When a question pops up, they can clap to buzz in.
You can "move objects on your screen" and the other party can see what you're doing in real time.
Sensor detects only the person playing, not folks observing on the couch.
We're rather curious as to what those two mystery sensors on the bar are doing, since there's specific mention of a lack of controllers. Perhaps they add depth perception to whatever the camera is picking up on video, but we guess we'll have to wait and find out. Of course, this could all be an elaborate hoax, but for what it's worth the picture appears undoctored, and the story is plausible. Either way, it's only natural for Microsoft to be looking to duplicate -- and expand upon -- the wild success Nintendo has enjoyed with motion-controlled gaming. And if they don't, Sony sure will.

This 3D camera talk sounded so familiar. I know IGN talked about this concept before when Matt C visited a trade show. A quick google search later and I found it. It is called the....

Z Camera

From Matt's blog (February 27, 200Cool 

At GDC 2008, I had the chance to try out 3DV Systems' "Z-Camera," a new piece of hardware that out-Wiis Wii, so to speak. Instead of any kind of controller or remote, you would simply plug this camera in to your game console via a USB port and you would theoretically be ready to roll. No accelerometer. No motion controls. The camera merely tracks your every movement and it does so with a remarkable level of accuracy and speed.

Watch this video for more.

You can see a quickly made boxing demo in the video above. Partially because Z Camera samples your movement at 60 frames, there is no lag whatsoever and it's extremely precise. Lift up your hand and unball your fist -- the camera will immediately lock onto the points of all your fingers. Pivot your elbow and it'll see that movement. Dodge and weave in a boxing game and your on-screen character will do the same -- accurately. 

The camera measures distance infrared style and a 3DV Systems' rep gave me a quickie demo of the functionality. He pulled up a screen that displayed exactly what the camera was seeing as I stood before it: a black and white outline of me. I moved closer and my outline became brighter. When I took two steps backward, I grew darker. This is how the camera very simply determines depth and it works in light and dark condictions -- although, as with the Wii remote, direct sunlight is not recommended; you can, alternatively, play very accurately in complete darkness. 

So often you see these cameras that seem to track you well until someone walks by in the background, at which point all hell breaks loose. Not so with this thing because you can actually set the cut-off point that it sees. For instance, three feet. The camera will not register any movement beyond that point. 

I was very impressed with this technology and firmly believe that it out-Wiis Wii in many respects. It's faster and more accurate than any accelerometer and you don't need to even use any external devices to use it. Just stand in front of the camera and you're set. Maybe Nintendo will do something similar for Wii 2 -- I would definitely be pleased. 

When I bumped into Reggie during a Nintendo dinner one night, I told him to go check out the demo and he admitted that he had already seen it. Someone in Nintendo Land is at the very least aware of the tech. Hopefully it inspires someone out of NCL to get busy on the next revolution.

Link

The camera technology seems to be identical. You have the depth perception and the cut-off point, so people behind you do not interfere. There is no need for a controller, you only need a camera. I am not sure what the 2 sensor's are for. 

 

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Wed, 13 May 2009 22:18:23
gamingeek said:

So lets move the discussion onwards asswads.

1. How do you think it will be introduced and sold? What do you think is the best way for it to happen?

2. What effect, if any do you see it having on the fortunes of MS or the competition?

3. Do you see developers adopting it en masse?

4. Do you see any Wii to 360 ports in the future or more shared platform games?

1. If it is to be succesful this generation then it will have to be bundled with a killer ap or an existing blockbuster franchise (So something Halo or Gears related).  If they just package it with something ripped off from Nintendo it ain't gonig to work (just as Lips did not hold a candle to Singstar).  If they launch as stand-alone, they may as well not launch it until the 8th generation.

2. I think it will be a money-loser for MS, thus a null for the competition.  Even if it does launch succesfully it still won't penetrate much of the existing install base.  That's just the way add-on peripheral sales work when they are launched this late in the cycle.

3. Not unless #1 happens.

4. If they up-armor some Wii games to port them over...? Geez that's tough.  I don't know, I just can't see, say Take2, bringing Carnival Games to the 360.  It just doesn't fit.

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Thu, 14 May 2009 04:38:59

1. How do you think it will be introduced and sold? What do you think is the best way for it to happen?

It'll be sold with at a trivia game, and surprisingly not sell.


2. What effect, if any do you see it having on the fortunes of MS or the competition?

Microsoft will lose money having developed something that will not sell


3. Do you see developers adopting it en masse?

Considering it won't sell...yes.


4. Do you see any Wii to 360 ports in the future or more shared platform games?


Well, what will be ported over from wii to the 360's periphrial will be vaporware, as nothing will be made for it.

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Thu, 14 May 2009 10:08:35

robio said:

4.  Too soon to tell.  There are still a lot of questions regarding how MS' motion controls will work.  But frankly I doubt it'll happen. Most 3rd parties have yet to really have a great showing with their games on the Wii.  None of them will be too quick to jump over to share a game that will have an extremely limited userbase for quite some time.

 What if MS had a mandate that all games from 2010 onwards had to support it in some form? New controls aren't that hard to incorporate right? It depends on the level of complexity they are going for? I agree on the killer app though. It needs to be a game attractive enough, bundled with it for low prices. 

Damn you guys are cynical. What if MS did a new slimmer 360 that came with the camera? And stopped producing the old models? So its the exact same console in a fancy new shell that still works with all your exisitng games but also has this camera as standard to start building an install base?

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