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The 2017 Beaten Games Topic of Going Gagandeep in Games
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Thu, 20 Apr 2017 04:15:39
+1
Foolz said:

The merits of Myst aside, are you really going to pretend The Witness would exist without it?

YES

No.

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Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:08:26

Devil May Cry, Phil Fogg style:

1. Devil May Cry 1

2. DmC

3. Devil may Cry 3

4. RUN DMC

5. Devil May Cry 2

Never played DMC4. One day...


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Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:09:29
Gagan said:
Foolz said:

The merits of Myst aside, are you really going to pretend The Witness would exist without it?

YES

No.

I think... I agree fully.


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Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:13:24
Gagan said:

DmC is the worst devil may cry game, it being better than DMC2 shouldn't even count, DMC2 doesn't exist.

a. DMC 2 is not that bad. There I said it.

b. DmC is made by one of the best studios of the last 20 years and their ability is reflected in this work, albeit not to the fullest extent given it was development for hire.

Caveat: I confuse many of the central tenets of DmC with Shadows of the Damned.


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Fri, 21 Apr 2017 06:46:28

There is no one thing DmC does better than 3, hell not even 4 and 1. The combat is dramatically worse, the enemy designs are worse both visually and how they interact within the gameplay, the boss fights are all pushovers that get rekt by angel evade, the controls are now more clunky and aren't rebindable like they were in the other itsuno games (because why have options? That's crazy talk, you're drunk Gagan), DmC added color coded enemies that force you to use one specific weapon to get any hits in, which could at least work as a mix up mechanic, except they show up far too often for it to be a mix up. And in a game like Devil May Cry it's the stupidest idea ever, since DMC combat is about showing off and player expression, so when you create an enemy that fundamentally restricts the player you can't really show off all that much now can you. It would almost come off like anyone who had a basic understanding of why DMC is good in the first place, should be able to recognize how conflicting this design decison would be, and how it's completely at odds with the gameplay loop. But, I'm sorry, this is Ninja Theory, they don't actually know why anyone would play a video game for the gameplay.

Added bonus lets lower the skill ceiling for SSS runs, lets lower the skill ceiling for keeping enemies in the air, let's be the smugest mother fuckers ever and act like we're above the "cheesy" and "childish" story of Devil May Cry, and then proceed to try this hamfisted blow hard poster modern bullshit about consumerism with Devil May Cry, and then take the cheeky n charistmatic Dante and make him a dirty slob. Who gets into fuck you contests with giant blobs, because that's "funny" and "cheesy" too, and somehow in the same ball park as this (Hint, it isn't). Turning him into an unrelenting douchebag wouldn't have been that bad of a thing, if you know the game didn't act like I'm supposed to find him badass n stuff.

Good stories can be made about dirt bags, but DmC sure isn't one of them. Because Ninja Theory, who are shit, had to over think the story. So now Dante couldn't just be a half human/demon. No! He has to be the son of an angel n a demon, because that would "make more sense". Missing the point that the cartoon character that was the original dante, care free, cheeky n smug, FUCKING FIT THE GAMEPLAY That asks the player to get good, and then proceed to be cheeky and smug to the enemies, Notice how all the way back in the first game, taunting is huge in terms of building up your devil trigger. Oh did I mention that DmC dropped taunts? You know something that was pretty central to the creation of Devil May Cry by Hideki Kamiya.

They dropped DMC's lock on system which is fundamental to how DMC's combat works. What did they replace it with? Oh right: no lock on system until they added a shittier soft lock for the remaster job, which they then didn't put on PC, because they are cunts. .

So directional inputs that set up launchers (you know one of those things that has become an iconic element of DMC's gameplay) is now mapped to a single button, because we dropped styles. That's right after DMC3 added styles, and 4 made it possible for you to switch them on the fly mid combo strings for a dizzying amount of combat potentia, DmC drops them. You know the thing that anyone who is a fan of this genre, absolutely loved about DMC4 in that Dante had so many styles he could switch on the fly and link into crazy custom combos, clearly isn't a thing that's important to the genre, because as Ninja Theory puts it. Having a game built around depth and mechanical mastery is "childish" and "stupid" and is keeping gaming in the "gutter", we need to be more like movies, so we can be art.

Let's have two buttons for the same dodge mechanic - which is bad game design 101. Why do you have two buttons dedicated to the same fucking mechanic? The Witcher 3 had the decency to do that because it had two different dodges. Dmc? Meh we don't need a devil trigger mode anymore, the lesser God of War franchise taught us it's more practical to put rage mode on the two sticks, instead of a quick button press that could easily link into your combo strings the way it does in Devil May Cry, the fucking class of the genre as far as player expression is concerned. No, instead the player needs two dodge buttons, because we think he or she might be too stupid to remember which button is the dodge, so we made it two buttons. Huzzah, us.

Juggling enemies is as simple as launch someone, shoot bullets until you get bored. In the old games, you like actually had to learn the fucking mechanics, and get good enough to keep them in the air. Fuck that noise, why would we ever build a video game that would reward skillful play on the player's part and thus have a gap between low level play and high level play, that would be silly and right in line with the grand history of some of the best games in this medium's history. Clearly being shallow n shitty is the way to go.



And thank god that instead of remembering that DMC is a game about stylish combat and getting high scores and doing things quickly, that we remembered to add the worst fucking thing about modern video games. Fucking cinematic walking in Devil May freakin Cry.

And none of this is for even the usual triple A bullshit where most people can at least apologize for the triple A tripe with "but it looks pretty", because it's an uglier game than DMC4. It's less vibrant, it has worse textures, worse character models, worse lighting, a shittier art style, it has more technical issues like popins because it's Unreal Engine and not MT Framework, and oh yeah, it runs at half the fucking framerate of a game that came out 5 years before it.

That game got shat on because it's a rubbish game with an okay gameplay loop, but happens to be a sequel to a franchise that had excellent game mechanics. With a learning curve, depth, and the ability to be rewarding to people who really love the genre, notice how all of those people are the ones who find it shitty. The game's fine as a baby's first action game, but it happens to be a sequel, THE fucking action game.

Make no mistake, I wouldn't argue it's a bad game, but it sure as fuck isn't a good one either, and certainly not a better game than DMC3 (one of the best games in the genre) or DMC4 (the best combat engine in the genre), or even DMC1 (because our lord and savior Kamiya made it). At it's best it's aight, but really it's mediocre if not outright subpar. It's saving grace is supposed to be it has no "quick time events", but that's because Ninja Theory is somehow actually even worse at doing QTE's given their previous games than they are at game mechanics, I don't even know how you mess that up, but they sure did.

Which brings us to Ninja Theory, they suck balls, one of the best devs of the last 20 years? Fuck, I'll take Platinum's bad games over Ninja Theory on their best day. They've had 3 games, none of them have good gameplay. Up until DmC only DmC had what could be argued as good game feel, and even that isn't special because Capcom had to help them with the combat, and it's strill a regression from where DMC was, because all 3 of the Devil May Cry games that exist all feel better in terms of sword meeting foe impact than DmC. Their games are shallow mechanically with little to nothing to their possibility space, DmC is the only game they've made that actually has proper variation amongst its enemies, which again still a regression when compared to the franchise they were working on. And the stories they tell? Mother fucker the best thing they did was ass rape Journey to the West into this stupid Matrix bullshit at the end of Enslaved.

They are a sick joke that get by with people who don't play action games, but anyone well versed in beat-em ups recognizes. Pretentious douchenozzles who wouldn't be worthy of making the sequel to flappy bird, much less making a noteworthy entry in the beat-em up genre. And they aren't even at least the admirable brand of pretentious like Johnathan Blow or Hideo Kojima, where they are artsy fartsy blow hards, but at least they tried to do something. No they are fucking games journalist brand of pretentious, where they tell people that this festering pile of turd is art fam, but you know damn well what your eyes, and more important your nose are telling you. Shit is shit, no matter how you try to package it.

Fuck Ninja Theory and fuck what they did with Devil May Cry. Their lone saving grace, is that they make me sort of appreciate God of War. It's shallow, but it can clearly be so much worse it can be either the new God of War or a NInja Theory game.

Shadows of the Damned was a better video game too.



And while I'm at it RunDMC is way better than video games, in general.

/end rant.

Edited: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:12:19

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Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:10:32

Solid rant, but: "Make no mistake, I wouldn't argue it's a bad game, but it sure as fuck isn't good one either" you should have gone all the way and done that, because it would have been a good argument for it. Nyaa

Edited: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:17:38

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Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:15:51

You guys need to get out more.

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Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:17:00

I still use the 4-6 range as not a bad game, and I'm not ready to give DmC a 3 or worse. It has good things going for it, because dumbed down DMC still has a solid core, but god damn is Ninja Theory way off from making a good action game. Hellblade will be the same garbage. Presentation fluff, wank ass walking segments, a try hard story about the feels, shit game mechanics, level design, and encounter designs, some nonsense about how they want to move the industry that much more forward and how they are the little guy who made the indie triple A game.

They are basically ready at dawn, except they've gotten away with making games on par with The Order.

Edited: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:18:16

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Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:20:34

Maybe you need .5s to make that 10 scoring system make more sense.

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Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:44:14

So I beat Night in the Woods.

I think some of the story beats are really cool, and on a deep sale I think if people want an excuse for a story game with not much in the way of unique gameplay ideas it's worth a spin at least if only for subject matter. Mae n crew are pretty believable, with Beatrice (who is called Bea, because come on) being the best of the bunch, a lot of the beats focus on what it's like to deal with anxiety, struggling to discuss that stuff with your parents, but keeping a good snarky game face around your friend.

The uncertainty of small town life and getting bogged down in a situation that isn't in line with your aspirations, all that good kind of stuff. There are points where Mae can come off insufferable, petulant, and just fucking oblivious, but I guess that's the point where the Bae's of the world have grown up, and Mae hasn't. Mae's irreverent behavior is mostly enjoyable at times too because her snark n pun game are on point, and the writing is more cute than I would argue good, but then it also gets weird in the way she is overly childish about shit.

Like some lame attempt at maintaining levity, when the levity isn't necessary for that sequence.

Oh and once we get into the "horror" stuff, it's straight doofy town.

As far as playing it is concerned: other than the ghetto guitar hero thing, nothing else about interacting with that game is particularly enjoyable or an interesting vehicle for the story they are telling. The platforming segments are too straight forward, simple, n shallow to be engaging even on a basic level, if anything I got sick of doing the dream levels because they feel like a formality, the little stealing minigame is whatever, and the adventure elements are....well what adventure elements. They make Oxenfree's puzzle sequences look like Braid by comparison.

Too long; didn't read edition - It's not a good game, it's not even particularly solid game, it's a unique subject matter and story type this medium usually doesn't have, before it turns into wacky horror shit that this medium usually has (and has done cooler things with by the way both as a game and as a story).

4/10

Installing Swat 4 so I can get back to like a game.

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Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:24:57

Just beat Duke Nukem Forever....and I enjoyed this too!

Again, the hate just baffles me. Granted it's ridiculous to be left waiting for a sequel for 11 years, but the game is genuinely fun most of the time, and its well paced. I've played far worse that scored much higher.

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Sun, 23 Apr 2017 16:27:34

Gagan is 100% right about DmC.

In a world where I struggle to get my character action/beat-em-up fix, it's a fun game. Fun, but it ain't DMC.

a. DMC 2 is not that bad. There I said it.
Yes it is.
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Mon, 24 Apr 2017 05:58:59

Right? It's like worse than bad, how do you go from a game where you have a satisfying crunch to....that shit.

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Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:14:24

I still don't understand how the same team from 2 made 3.

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Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:32:06

Because it's not really the same team. Apparently that game had other director's before Itsuno, and Itsuno came in late and "saved" the project. DMC2 could have apparently been worse.

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Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:46:38

I finished Mad Max.  It's pretty good though repetitive .  The visuals are nice and combat is fun yet shallow.  There's several missions that are total shit, especially a rage inducing race right near the end. I'd probably give it a 7.5, knocking it down because of some of the missions.  It was only $10 which was quite a steal for me.  If you love sandbox games with  gameplay similar to Shadows of Mordor then give it a shot...if it's dirt cheap.

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Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:37:50
+1

Updated with Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (PS4)

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Fri, 28 Apr 2017 02:54:59
Shovel Knight: Specter of Torment  (Wii U) 4/27

It was great, playing it made me decide maybe I should get around to finally finishing Plague of Shadows.

I took a break from that because I had trouble defeating Black Knight's final form.

Specter of Torment was fast paced I completed the main story and got all the items fully upgraded in only 6 hours and 30 minutes.
Edited: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:17:05

SUPER MARIO MAKER LEVELS:

  • SMB Mix-Up! (1AB2-0000-0047-5A7D)
  • Storm the Castle (77BD-0000-00E0-A9C0)
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Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:18:15

So I beat Tearaway Unfolded a month late n shit, but what you gonna do, Zelda merited a second playthrough.

Listen for all intents and purposes I do find the game charming. Judged purely on its goal of being a light hearted adventure that isn't all that challenging and wants to be whimsical and fun, and for everyone, a pick up n play friendly game, with a visual style that's distinct, it's like being in a world made out of craft paper, a game that's just pure joy or every other routine people go through when they want to gas up a game that they don't really have anything interesting to say about the gameplay, it's all that on some level.

It certainly doesn't waste it's potential like say the way Mooksi and I felt like Gravity Rush has you doing too much of the wrong fucking thing (it's lame ass action combat). But I wasn't exactly thrilled by the gameplay either, and "well it is Media Molecule" doesn't really fit here as the reason. LBP didn't control well, it felt floaty and awkward, and those levels were never satisfying. It also made sense that game's focus was mostly on its creation tools and curation.

This is a bit more of an adventure game, an action/adventure if you will. And it's you know, suffers from the things that most adventure games can kind of suffer from. In that it's a very jack of all trade genres, it's usually a case where the game does a whole bunch of things fine, but nothing exceptionally well.

It's not like a Doom or a Devil May Cry where the games are mostly about one thing, and the surrounding pieces are about highlighting that one thing, and as a result the game is exceptional at said, one thing.

Which is fine, I'm a big fan of Metroid Prime, and a game with a strong composition can still be good so long as enough of the mechanics are enjoyable, even if no particular mechanic is particularly world class (The Last of Us for instance fits that description for me, although I am a big fan of that game's gunplay)

A lot of the early stuff I don't like. Because for starters the controller gimmicks are mixed bag. I didn't really care to flash a light for a stun, or melt paper, and I usually dislike any form of gyro or motion stuff. Other stuff wasn't all that bad, but it was so simple that it wasn't particularly engaging, like say when you can throw rocks at The You, and then shoot rocks at some sort of cracked piece of the environment or an enemy.

I also think the game is overly kid friendly with the hand holding, way too often it will teach a mechanic (fine), but then continue to act like it needs to teach you another part of the mechanic that you are naturally going to learn given some of the stuff you just did, and the way they hint at stuff can get tiresome. I would have preferred if the game was more willing to let me figure stuff out on my own, though to be fair maybe there is something in the settings for that.

I certainly didn't see it as the settings menu on the pause screen was fairly limited, I don't even think I saw a thing to adjust the music, voice acting, or sound fx volume independently like most games.

When the game is fun, which is probably the chapter from the harbor all the way to a lot of the end game stuff, is still simple, but has enough of a pop n flow to it that I was having a good time. I liked my ghetto luigi's mansion suck things up and shoot things at people thing, I didn't know if it needed to be a one off, but when I did have it? Good time.

The bounce pads being used with the Wendigo's were a good time. The little button presses that make pillars and platforms is cute, and when you have elaborate sequences where you can go in a rhythm using the wind mechanic is fairly solid.

Shallow, but fun. I did find other sequences to be cumbersome, I hate tilting a controller, because it's my same beef with it when I'm playing some Nintendo joint. Why the fuck would I prefer this over a regular ass gamepad and analog? I get the more direct feel, but it's more unnatural and I tend to prefer tighter controls on balance with some pretty rare exceptions. Tearaway didn't quite become one of those exceptions.

I'm not completely sold I would have liked the Vita version that much more, I doubt the camera would have sold me on shit, and popping your thumbs through paper sounds cute n all, but it's not gonna make the gameplay fun. And the story is, I mean it's a bit too corny at times, but it has its moments. And Media Molecule's got this hard on for turning people into creators that's totally adorbs.

It's charming enough for me to think the game is aight, but I wouldn't necessarily if someone thought the game was closer to average or even subpar either. It's best qualities are that it's inventive, and I really want to like something that's inventive, I also would really like to like the gameplay, but I don't.

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Sat, 29 Apr 2017 13:50:15

Updated with NieR: Automata.

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