Agnates said:To claim they're so different is what shows ignorance. Just because you CAN make total conversions and import all sorts of content not included with the game when a game is modable doesn't mean that's all there is to do with PC mods. Different levels, single or multiplayer, and whole campaigns are far more common (as they're easier to make than a full total conversion that completely changes the gameplay) and have been common since before Doom. What tools you use to make them is incidental difference, the goal is the same, which is extra user created content playable by owners of that game. And PC is simply better at this. LBP brings a glimpse of it to consoles, but only a glimpse. That it's a mere glimpse instead of the full capabilities possible elsewhere doesn't make it its own thing.
You keep missing the point. I am not arguing which allows for more content. I am talking about the design of the game itself. When Valve and ID and whatever company is making a game they are not making a game about level creation, or a game about having an online system where users can hop in and out of multiple levels at will. They are focused on making whatever game they are making, then they allow the community to create mods using their engines and for the most part all that stuff is extrenal to the game. The devs may aid the community in certain ways but its not the design of the game.
The design of LBP is one where the entire focus is this in game community of creating and sharing. The core design is extremely different, they are not the same animal.
gamingeek said:
GG lets use you as an example since you are one of those gamers that can't be bothered with hard stuff. What would you rather have, PC mods where you have to search websites to find the mods and read up on how to install them and all that stuff. Or a game where everything is integrated in game, where all this content is part of the game itself.
Dvader said:
GG lets use you as an example since you are one of those gamers that can't be bothered with hard stuff. What would you rather have, PC mods where you have to search websites to find the mods and read up on how to install them and all that stuff. Or a game where everything is integrated in game, where all this content is part of the game itself.
Don't drag me into this.
I dodge your attempts with elegance and ease.
gamingeek said:
Don't drag me into this.
I dodge your attempts with elegance and ease.
Well I know your answer. You hate it when you have to get off your chair to turn on the power. 
Dvader said:
I would hire someone to scratch my butt crack if I wasn't so cheap.
gamingeek said:I would hire someone to scratch my butt crack if I wasn't so cheap.
Is the job opening for GG hands still open. You know the job where you sit on top of me and I put my hands under your arms to play for you. I need a job badly. I will relocate but you must pay for the expenses.
Dvader said:Is the job opening for GG hands still open. You know the job where you sit on top of me and I put my hands under your arms to play for you. I need a job badly.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Where did this "sit on top of you" come from?
You're obviously not the right candidate for the job.
^ WTF that was your words... I responded with why cant I sit next to you.
Dvader said:Iga_Bobovic said:That's it?! Just because you have to visit a website it does not count? The whole game is created around creating and sharing just like LBP. LPB streamlined the sharing content a bit more, but the rest is exactly the same. You are grasping here.
The second you have to leave the game to do something you lose the majority of users. You are not going to get many people to participate if you make them go through a lot of trouble to access the content, only the dedicated will check it out.
Lot's of trouble, you say. You go to the site, then you sign in and give your Wii console number. And finally you click on the level and it is downloaded immediately to you Wii. You can do that from the Wii itself thanks to the Opera Browser. Once you sign it it is just a click away.
And no, you do not lose users because of it. No one has bought the game, so there is nothing to lose.
gamingeek said:Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Where did this "sit on top of you" come from?
You're obviously not the right candidate for the job.
You said so yourself!
Dvader said:You keep missing the point.
No, you. Just re-read my previous posts as you said nothing I've not already covered in detail. They have the same goal, that they go about achieving it via slightly different presentation and implementation (different developers and all) doesn't change that goal into something wholly different. User creation. Playability of user creations.
And lol @ presenting installation as some alien concept, like you don't go through it to actually play the given modable game. As well as conveniently ignoring the other methods of acquiring such content that I mentioned.
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Dvader said:gamingeek said:Please God make it stop.
I know you like it.
Dvader said:gamingeek said:I would hire someone to scratch my butt crack if I wasn't so cheap.
Is the job opening for GG hands still open. You know the job where you sit on top of me and I put my hands under your arms to play for you. I need a job badly.
Iga_Bobovic said:Lot's of trouble, you say. You go to the site, then you sign in and give your Wii console number. And finally you click on the level and it is downloaded immediately to you Wii. You can do that from the Wii itself thanks to the Opera Browser. Once you sign it it is just a click away.
And no, you do not lose users because of it. No one has bought the game, so there is nothing to lose.
So true.
Agnates said:No, you. Just re-read my previous posts as you said nothing I've not already covered in detail. They have the same goal, that they go about achieving it via slightly different presentation and implementation (different developers and all) doesn't change that goal into something wholly different. User creation. Playability of user creations.
And lol @ presenting installation as some alien concept, like you don't go through it to actually play the given modable game. As well as conveniently ignoring the other methods of acquiring such content that I mentioned.
They dont have the same goal. The dev team at Valve is not trying to create this massive online community that can host millions of levels, that can allow groups of players to instantly jump in and out of any level they so chose, or have a game that teaches you how to participate and make sure its easy for all users to do. The focus of thier game is not that. So its not the same, they are not even remotely trying to do what Media Molecule has done.
This needs to go into the hall of fame. Not because it's awesome, but because we should remember our atrocities just as we celebrate our successes!
Foolz said:This needs to go into the hall of fame. Not because it's awesome, but because we should remember our atrocities just as we celebrate our successes!
I am taking a stand, this is where I draw the line. Who is with me!
The goal is the same. Creation of user content, playability of such content, and extention of the game's shelf life due to these factors. It's worked for many games, whether you think they're user friendly enough or not. Half-Life series, Unreal series, Quake series, Doom series, Neverwinter Nights, Bethesda games. It's only you loss if the latter. Many of those Oblivion mods are still simple to install, did you actually try to do it or just saw that the page is a few paragraphs long and decided it's too much hassle and an example of how hard it is? Many come with installers just like the official DLC, for others all you do is put some files in a given folder. It's basically your choice fow simple or complex it's going to be. Obviously if you get 2-3-4 mods that do some of the same things, ie, texture replacements or skill replacements that apply to the whole game rather than some new custom area, there may be conflicts that you need to take in account in the load order. To you it seems complex, to others it's common sense. Here's a near Total Conversion for Oblivion, and all you do is use the installer they provide. Besides, what are you claiming now, that one modable PC game is like every modable PC game? I guess you haven't been reading my posts since one of my main points was that implementation often varies, but the goals remain the same (see the first sentence again). Here's how to play this Source mod. You go to its steam page, and click install. It's the same for others, although not all of them, for many you'll need to simply get an installer file as if you just downloaded a new game (and often that's what you'll have done). As for custom multiplayer levels? You don't even have to do anything, you just click to play your Source game or mod online as usual, and if the host is using a custom level you auto download and install it then proceed to play. The same happens with Trackmania as each track is a few kilobytes despite any potential design complexity. Stop grasping.
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To claim they're so different is what shows ignorance. Just because you CAN make total conversions and import all sorts of content not included with the game when it's fully modable doesn't mean that's all there is to do. Different levels, single or multiplayer, and whole campaigns are far more common (as they're easier to make for obvious reasons) and have been common since before Doom. When it comes to multiplayer it's usually even easier to acquire them, as just connecting to a server that runs a custom map will mean it's auto downloaded by you when you try to join it. You don't even need to search. This is how Trackmania handles levels as well. What tools you use to make them is incidental difference due to the engine or whatever else. The goal is the same: extra user created content playable by owners of the game, the ability for owners of the game to modify and make content for it. PC is simply better at this. LBP brings a glimpse of it to consoles, but only a glimpse. That it's a mere glimpse instead of the full capabilities possible elsewhere doesn't make it its own beast or whatever else.
The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds
while the pessimist fears this is true.
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