Forum > Gaming Discussion > Hypocrisy and Sales: Madworld, The Conduit, Dead Space Extraction and more
Hypocrisy and Sales: Madworld, The Conduit, Dead Space Extraction and more
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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:56:53
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Sales, it's what it's all about. 

When it comes to Wii there are a few examples that are held up like candles at 80s rock concerts by the media. This is why wii games don't sell, this is why its not worth it. 

The sales of certain games are headliners, they appear on the front page of various gaming and industry websites: Game X fails, it fails to set the world alight, its a bomb and it shows this and that and this. Sometimes even first day or week sales are headline news, they were in the case of Overkill and Extraction for instance. 

Looking more deeply at the sales of other games on single platforms, you find a pretty big contradiction though. 

This thread isn't about the Conduit being better than game X, but it does show how the media delight in highlighting "poor" sales and making examples out of Wii games whilst not doing the same for other titles on other platforms.  

So what are the examples? Let's try and make a list from worldwide estimates. 

(Yes I'm using VGchartz and until you can find a more comprehensive all encompassing source - shut up) 

House of the Dead Overkill 600'000 sold

Which means that it outsold the following games:

Brutal Legend on 360 580k

Infinite Undiscovery 570k

Top Spin 3 on 360 540k

Blue Dragon 540k

Kameo 530k

Sonic Unleashed on PS3 590k

Beatles Rock Band PS3 580k

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 580k

Warhawk 550k

Ghostbusters PS3 540k

Pure PS3 530k

Skate 2 PS3 530k

Bioshock PS3 490k

Condemned 2 on 360 480k

Using recently released games is a little unfair, but just to throw it out there Overkill at the moment has more sales than PS3 versions of Borderlands, Bayonetta and Yakuza 3.

Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles 500'000

Which means that it outsold the following games:

Bioshock on PS3 490k

Lost Planet Extreme Condition on PS3 490k

Tales of Vesperia on 360 480k

Condemned 2 on 360 480k

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 470k

Red Faction Guerilla PS3 470k

F.E.A.R on 360 460k

No More Heroes 470'000

Which means that it outsold the following games:

F.E.A.R on 360 460k

Top Spin 3 on PS3 460k

Tom Clancy's Endwar on PS3 460k

Tom Clancy's HAWK 450k

Ghostbusters on 360 450k

Unreal Tournament 3 on 360 460k

Army of Two: 40th day on 360 450k

Ghost Recon advanced warfighter 2 on PS3 420k

Madworld 450'000

Which means that it outsold the following games:

Ghost Recon advanced warfighter 2 on PS3 420k

Brutal Legend PS3 420k

Tom Clancy's HAWX on PS3 420k

F.E.A.R 2 on 360 440k

Alone in the Dark on 360 420k

Dark Sector 360 420k

Overlord on 360 410k (enough to make a sequel across multiple platforms?)

Shadowrun 410k

Wet on 360 390k

Lair 390k

The Conduit 390'000

Which means that it outsold the following games:

Stranglehold on 360 380k

Ninety Nine Nights on 360 380k

Wolfenstein on 360 380k

Viva Pinata Trouble in Paradise 370k

Dark Sector PS3 360k

Tales of Vesperia PS3 360k

Army of Two 40th Day PS3 320k

FEAR 2 on PS3 320k

Silent Hill Homecoming on 360 350k

Hitman Blood Money 360 330k

Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth on 360 310k

The Saboteur, The BIGS, Quake 4, Blacksite Area 51 on 360 310k each

Terminator Salvation PS3 310k

Okami 300'000

Which means that it outsold the following games:

Prey on 360 290k

SEGA superstars tennis on PS3 290k

Spiderman 3 on PS3 280k

Beautiful Katamari 360 280k

Clive Barkers Jericho 360 270k

Skate PS3 270k

Medal of Honor Airborne PS3 250k (Heroes 2 Wii outsold it by quite some margin - yet where is the next Wii Medal of Honor?)

Harry potter Order of the Phoenix 360 260k

Call of Juarez 360 250k

Eternal Sonata 360 250k

Overlord 2, The Club, Terminator Salvation on 360 240k

Half Life 2 Orange Box PS3 230k

Silent Hill Homecoming PS3 230k

Dead Space Extraction 220'000

Which means that it outsold the following games:

Far Cry Instincts Predator on 360 220k

Chronicles of Riddick Dark Athena on 360 220k

Tiger Woods PGA tour 8 PS3 210k

Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 on 360 210k

Bionic Commando on 360 210k

Rayman RRabbids 360 200k

Ninja Blade 200k

Genji, 200k

Star Ocean the Last Hope PS3 200k

Wanted PS3 200k

The Darkness, Stranglehold, Incredible Hulk on PS3 190k

Overlord 2 PS3 180k

Splinter Cell 4 on PS3 170k

FEAR PS3 160k

Bionic Commando, Harry potter order of the Phoenix, The Club on PS3 160k

Mini Ninjas 360 150k

Fracture 360 130k

The BIGS 2 on 360 120k

Just Cause 360 110k (didn't this just get a sequel?)

Afrika 140k

Dark Void PS3 100k 

Timeshift PS3 90k

Aquanauts Holiday 40k GASP The frak? Endless Ocean 1 hit 980k

And what you should be thinking through all this, is how the marketing and development budgets compare, as we've heard from studio heads and publishing executives, the average price of making a Wii game is comparable to last gen, even cheaper in most cases. Measuring success on those relative terms and these so-called failures, don't seem quite so bad.

So as its been pointed out, you can sell a game on two platforms when making an HD game. Sure, but Wii is a single platform, so its game sales should be compared to a single platform. Unless we follow the opposite, logical, implication - that single platform games are expected to sell as much as multiplatform games?

Aside from the Wii games highlighted in bold I can only think of two games whose sales have made headlines and that is Capcom's Dark Void and Bionic Commando. I think here the company is generally so successful, they stood out. And because the US arm of the company was coming under scrutiny. 






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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:02:46
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Darkside Chronicles picked up speed from the early flopping eh? Probably Japan saved it. That's good to see on one hand, bad on the other... No more rail shooterz plox (unless it's Virtua Cop or HoTD4/5 or Starfox and Panzer Dragoon etc, you know what I mean), make some proper games, like Nintendo is doing... Bring me some platformers and Metroid and Zelda-likes, come on third parties, it's an untapped market to exploit on top of the HD market, not to replace it (also, more upgraded PC ports of your HD games please) exxxtra profitz :-)
Edited: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:06:04
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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:08:38
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Yay Call of Juarez 250k. I hope it gets a sequel. With the same characters.

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:11:50
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The next challenge is to compare the more successful games. REFLEX came out a couple of years late, but its still doing quite well for itself at  940k

Which brings up the next point of hypocrisy, why does the media talk up poor sales of a game like the Conduit, when there are three Wii FPS that have already sold over a million? And REFLEX may shortly join the club.

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:25:02
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The Conduit shouldn't get flack because of its poor sales, but because of being a mediocre game at best. If anything, it has sold way more than it deserved.
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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:30:45
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SteelAttack said:
The Conduit shouldn't get flack because of its poor sales, but because of being a mediocre game at best. If anything, it has sold way more than it deserved.

 Yes, for sure. 

If sales are to be complained about then it should at least be for actual good games. 

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:36:36
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Jesus, I wonder how much were the respective budgets for The Conduit and Lair.
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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:51:29
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SteelAttack said:
Jesus, I wonder how much were the respective budgets for The Conduit and Lair.

 Here:

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=22757

Nintendo World Report: The Conduit has received some mixed reviews overall. What do you think of this outcome, and how will it affect future games?

Joshua Olson: We've been very happy, and the publisher has been very happy with the results of The Conduit, an original IP coming out, especially when the market's been down; it's been a very positive experience for us. In terms of reviews, it's interesting. We're all over the board

NWR: Ignoring the reviews, how do you and Sega feel about the reception of The Conduit?

JO: Sega was very pleased, and we were very pleased. Like I said, with an original IP introduced into a market that is down, sales have been very good, so we're very happy.

Developers and even publishers like SEGA literally go on to say that they are happy with sales of Overkill/Conduit, even Madworld and yet the games are still seen as failures? It's like white noise because it didn't sell 5 million like Gears of War. But FEAR and Prey and Call of Juarez and tons of other FPS put out lower numbers and no criticism there. 

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:54:46
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If devs and pubs are happy with their sales, who is seeing them as failures?

The specialized press? And if so, why should it matter?

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:13:24

SteelAttack said:

If devs and pubs are happy with their sales, who is seeing them as failures?

The specialized press? And if so, why should it matter?

 I guess because of the influence they wield in shaping public opinion. Once there is a stigma attached, you get execs in board rooms at other companies who read a story once that said that this game flopped, so don't commission another game of that type. Once you get an image its hard to change that, its like making a prophecy that you make come true. 

The Wii is a fad and is going to burn out. You think that before it launches and then stick to it, not supporting it, so that does actually happen. You made it happen. And it could have been different, if you made it different. 

For instance, EA heard that SEGA's core wii games didn't sell amazingly well so they cut back on the Extraction marketing budget, which makes the game sell less. Konami do the same with Silent hill. Then SEGA, as we've seen, look at Dead Space Extraction sales and say: whoa. 


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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:15:10

SteelAttack said:

If devs and pubs are happy with their sales, who is seeing them as failures?

The specialized press? And if so, why should it matter?

 it shouldn't but it seems to affect where developers and publishers choose to put their future games.

how many times did you see ultimatums like "if such and such a game doesn't sell (as well as NSMB) then we will seriously consider any future support for the platform"?

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:31:23

I guess you're both right, but at any rate, the blame is to be laid upon pubs and the press.

The only way of getting out of this vicious circle is forcing the dedicated press to improve their standards by thoughtfully criticizing their work, and adressing the criticism directly to them.

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:49:05
I'm not shutting up, you used VGcahrtzzzzzz.

I'll make up numbers too if you'd like. Nyaa

Anyway you do have a point, the difference is that there are a ton of high profile games hitting the 360/PS3 each month. Every time a third party game on the Wii that looks original or looks like a developer tried, everyone puts a microscope on it cause there are so few. The other side of it is that they are comparing it to big budget games as if these Wii titles need to sell millions of copies to be successful. HotD Overkill sold extremely well, if somehow it was on 360/PS3 it isn't going to sell any better. Endless Ocean has room to shine on the Wii when if released on any other console it gets swallowed up whole. Plus there is the whole thing where Wii games sell better over time than the others. Its a case of sites using the same rules they use for PS3/360 and applying it too Wii.
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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:32:12
Wii games aren't sexy - for whatever reason. No amazing graphics to exclaim over, no expensive promotional pushes (essentially no third party advertising) , no vocal fanbase on the internet to help promote. Hell, not even very much credit given to the games at all. If you were to guess how the consoles were doing from game reviews and posts that didn't concern sales you'd think nintendo was almost third party. I see Just Dance is still top 5 of the pal charts. And look at how NSMB wii (and mario kart wii) was shrugged at by some reviewers and how it's sold.
There are no percieved epic games on the wii (except for zelda  and Mario I guess) and those are the only ones that get big attention. Even if a game stinks, at least before it's release it looks epic and sexy. Videogames aren't supposed to be simple,childish games anymore. They are supposed to be epic, moving, interactive, gritty dramas - with multiplayer.
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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:35:30
Wii sucks.

Calvinpeeingonwii.jpg


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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:52:46

Ravenprose said:
Wii sucks.

Calvinpeeingonwii.jpg


This is the only correct answer. LOL

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:03:47
gamingeek said: 

The Wii is a fad and is going to burn out. You think that before it launches and then stick to it, not supporting it, so that does actually happen. You made it happen. And it could have been different, if you made it different. 


Self-fulfilling prophecy would have been more succinct.

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:29:21
There is a simple answer to why Wii-games are being reported as failures. It's because a huge number of the so called journalists within gaming media aren't journalists as much as fanboys (graphic whores at that). And as such they have still not accepted Wii for what it is but fear it because it's changing and exposing their beloved hobby to new audiances.

Many "gaming journalists" aren't better than the typical 15-20 year old male posting on gaming forums. HD = awesome. Wii = toy. It's sad but to me it's pretty evident that this is the case.

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:40:39

A game can still be a commercial failure even though it sells more than another game.

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Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:50:39

Dvader said:
I'm not shutting up, you used VGcahrtzzzzzz.


Anyway you do have a point, the difference is that there are a ton of high profile games hitting the 360/PS3 each month. Every time a third party game on the Wii that looks original or looks like a developer tried, everyone puts a microscope on it cause there are so few. The other side of it is that they are comparing it to big budget games as if these Wii titles need to sell millions of copies to be successful. HotD Overkill sold extremely well, if somehow it was on 360/PS3 it isn't going to sell any better. Endless Ocean has room to shine on the Wii when if released on any other console it gets swallowed up whole. Plus there is the whole thing where Wii games sell better over time than the others. Its a case of sites using the same rules they use for PS3/360 and applying it too Wii.

 Shut up. 

Good points.


Yodariquo said:
gamingeek said: 

The Wii is a fad and is going to burn out. You think that before it launches and then stick to it, not supporting it, so that does actually happen. You made it happen. And it could have been different, if you made it different. 


Self-fulfilling prophecy would have been more succinct.

 I had problems spelling fulfilling so I re-worded it. True story LOL

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