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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds while the pessimist fears this is true. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Yay Call of Juarez 250k. I hope it gets a sequel. With the same characters.
The next challenge is to compare the more successful games. REFLEX came out a couple of years late, but its still doing quite well for itself at 940k
Which brings up the next point of hypocrisy, why does the media talk up poor sales of a game like the Conduit, when there are three Wii FPS that have already sold over a million? And REFLEX may shortly join the club.
SteelAttack said:The Conduit shouldn't get flack because of its poor sales, but because of being a mediocre game at best. If anything, it has sold way more than it deserved.
Yes, for sure.
If sales are to be complained about then it should at least be for actual good games.
SteelAttack said:Jesus, I wonder how much were the respective budgets for The Conduit and Lair.
Here:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=22757
Nintendo World Report: The Conduit has received some mixed reviews overall. What do you think of this outcome, and how will it affect future games?
Joshua Olson: We've been very happy, and the publisher has been very happy with the results of The Conduit, an original IP coming out, especially when the market's been down; it's been a very positive experience for us. In terms of reviews, it's interesting. We're all over the board
NWR: Ignoring the reviews, how do you and Sega feel about the reception of The Conduit?
JO: Sega was very pleased, and we were very pleased. Like I said, with an original IP introduced into a market that is down, sales have been very good, so we're very happy.
Developers and even publishers like SEGA literally go on to say that they are happy with sales of Overkill/Conduit, even Madworld and yet the games are still seen as failures? It's like white noise because it didn't sell 5 million like Gears of War. But FEAR and Prey and Call of Juarez and tons of other FPS put out lower numbers and no criticism there.
If devs and pubs are happy with their sales, who is seeing them as failures?
The specialized press? And if so, why should it matter?
SteelAttack said:If devs and pubs are happy with their sales, who is seeing them as failures?
The specialized press? And if so, why should it matter?
I guess because of the influence they wield in shaping public opinion. Once there is a stigma attached, you get execs in board rooms at other companies who read a story once that said that this game flopped, so don't commission another game of that type. Once you get an image its hard to change that, its like making a prophecy that you make come true.
The Wii is a fad and is going to burn out. You think that before it launches and then stick to it, not supporting it, so that does actually happen. You made it happen. And it could have been different, if you made it different.
For instance, EA heard that SEGA's core wii games didn't sell amazingly well so they cut back on the Extraction marketing budget, which makes the game sell less. Konami do the same with Silent hill. Then SEGA, as we've seen, look at Dead Space Extraction sales and say: whoa.
SteelAttack said:If devs and pubs are happy with their sales, who is seeing them as failures?
The specialized press? And if so, why should it matter?
it shouldn't but it seems to affect where developers and publishers choose to put their future games.
how many times did you see ultimatums like "if such and such a game doesn't sell (as well as NSMB) then we will seriously consider any future support for the platform"?
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Listen to Wu-Tang and watch Kung-Fu
I guess you're both right, but at any rate, the blame is to be laid upon pubs and the press.
The only way of getting out of this vicious circle is forcing the dedicated press to improve their standards by thoughtfully criticizing their work, and adressing the criticism directly to them.
I'll make up numbers too if you'd like.
Anyway you do have a point, the difference is that there are a ton of high profile games hitting the 360/PS3 each month. Every time a third party game on the Wii that looks original or looks like a developer tried, everyone puts a microscope on it cause there are so few. The other side of it is that they are comparing it to big budget games as if these Wii titles need to sell millions of copies to be successful. HotD Overkill sold extremely well, if somehow it was on 360/PS3 it isn't going to sell any better. Endless Ocean has room to shine on the Wii when if released on any other console it gets swallowed up whole. Plus there is the whole thing where Wii games sell better over time than the others. Its a case of sites using the same rules they use for PS3/360 and applying it too Wii.
Calvinpeeingonwii.jpg
Ravenprose said:Wii sucks.
Calvinpeeingonwii.jpg
This is the only correct answer. 
gamingeek said:The Wii is a fad and is going to burn out. You think that before it launches and then stick to it, not supporting it, so that does actually happen. You made it happen. And it could have been different, if you made it different.
Self-fulfilling prophecy would have been more succinct.
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Tell me to get back to rewriting this site so it's not horrible on mobile
Many "gaming journalists" aren't better than the typical 15-20 year old male posting on gaming forums. HD = awesome. Wii = toy. It's sad but to me it's pretty evident that this is the case.
A game can still be a commercial failure even though it sells more than another game.
Dvader said:I'm not shutting up, you used VGcahrtzzzzzz.
Anyway you do have a point, the difference is that there are a ton of high profile games hitting the 360/PS3 each month. Every time a third party game on the Wii that looks original or looks like a developer tried, everyone puts a microscope on it cause there are so few. The other side of it is that they are comparing it to big budget games as if these Wii titles need to sell millions of copies to be successful. HotD Overkill sold extremely well, if somehow it was on 360/PS3 it isn't going to sell any better. Endless Ocean has room to shine on the Wii when if released on any other console it gets swallowed up whole. Plus there is the whole thing where Wii games sell better over time than the others. Its a case of sites using the same rules they use for PS3/360 and applying it too Wii.
Shut up.
Good points.
Yodariquo said:gamingeek said:The Wii is a fad and is going to burn out. You think that before it launches and then stick to it, not supporting it, so that does actually happen. You made it happen. And it could have been different, if you made it different.
Self-fulfilling prophecy would have been more succinct.
I had problems spelling fulfilling so I re-worded it. True story
Sales, it's what it's all about.
When it comes to Wii there are a few examples that are held up like candles at 80s rock concerts by the media. This is why wii games don't sell, this is why its not worth it.
The sales of certain games are headliners, they appear on the front page of various gaming and industry websites: Game X fails, it fails to set the world alight, its a bomb and it shows this and that and this. Sometimes even first day or week sales are headline news, they were in the case of Overkill and Extraction for instance.
Looking more deeply at the sales of other games on single platforms, you find a pretty big contradiction though.
This thread isn't about the Conduit being better than game X, but it does show how the media delight in highlighting "poor" sales and making examples out of Wii games whilst not doing the same for other titles on other platforms.
So what are the examples? Let's try and make a list from worldwide estimates.
(Yes I'm using VGchartz and until you can find a more comprehensive all encompassing source - shut up)
House of the Dead Overkill 600'000 sold
Which means that it outsold the following games:
Brutal Legend on 360 580k
Infinite Undiscovery 570k
Top Spin 3 on 360 540k
Blue Dragon 540k
Kameo 530k
Sonic Unleashed on PS3 590k
Beatles Rock Band PS3 580k
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 580k
Warhawk 550k
Ghostbusters PS3 540k
Pure PS3 530k
Skate 2 PS3 530k
Bioshock PS3 490k
Condemned 2 on 360 480k
Using recently released games is a little unfair, but just to throw it out there Overkill at the moment has more sales than PS3 versions of Borderlands, Bayonetta and Yakuza 3.
Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles 500'000
Which means that it outsold the following games:
Bioshock on PS3 490k
Lost Planet Extreme Condition on PS3 490k
Tales of Vesperia on 360 480k
Condemned 2 on 360 480k
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 470k
Red Faction Guerilla PS3 470k
F.E.A.R on 360 460k
No More Heroes 470'000
Which means that it outsold the following games:
F.E.A.R on 360 460k
Top Spin 3 on PS3 460k
Tom Clancy's Endwar on PS3 460k
Tom Clancy's HAWK 450k
Ghostbusters on 360 450k
Unreal Tournament 3 on 360 460k
Army of Two: 40th day on 360 450k
Ghost Recon advanced warfighter 2 on PS3 420k
Madworld 450'000
Which means that it outsold the following games:
Ghost Recon advanced warfighter 2 on PS3 420k
Brutal Legend PS3 420k
Tom Clancy's HAWX on PS3 420k
F.E.A.R 2 on 360 440k
Alone in the Dark on 360 420k
Dark Sector 360 420k
Overlord on 360 410k (enough to make a sequel across multiple platforms?)
Shadowrun 410k
Wet on 360 390k
Lair 390k
The Conduit 390'000
Which means that it outsold the following games:
Stranglehold on 360 380k
Ninety Nine Nights on 360 380k
Wolfenstein on 360 380k
Viva Pinata Trouble in Paradise 370k
Dark Sector PS3 360k
Tales of Vesperia PS3 360k
Army of Two 40th Day PS3 320k
FEAR 2 on PS3 320k
Silent Hill Homecoming on 360 350k
Hitman Blood Money 360 330k
Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth on 360 310k
The Saboteur, The BIGS, Quake 4, Blacksite Area 51 on 360 310k each
Terminator Salvation PS3 310k
Okami 300'000
Which means that it outsold the following games:
Prey on 360 290k
SEGA superstars tennis on PS3 290k
Spiderman 3 on PS3 280k
Beautiful Katamari 360 280k
Clive Barkers Jericho 360 270k
Skate PS3 270k
Medal of Honor Airborne PS3 250k (Heroes 2 Wii outsold it by quite some margin - yet where is the next Wii Medal of Honor?)
Harry potter Order of the Phoenix 360 260k
Call of Juarez 360 250k
Eternal Sonata 360 250k
Overlord 2, The Club, Terminator Salvation on 360 240k
Half Life 2 Orange Box PS3 230k
Silent Hill Homecoming PS3 230k
Dead Space Extraction 220'000
Which means that it outsold the following games:
Far Cry Instincts Predator on 360 220k
Chronicles of Riddick Dark Athena on 360 220k
Tiger Woods PGA tour 8 PS3 210k
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 on 360 210k
Bionic Commando on 360 210k
Rayman RRabbids 360 200k
Ninja Blade 200k
Genji, 200k
Star Ocean the Last Hope PS3 200k
Wanted PS3 200k
The Darkness, Stranglehold, Incredible Hulk on PS3 190k
Overlord 2 PS3 180k
Splinter Cell 4 on PS3 170k
FEAR PS3 160k
Bionic Commando, Harry potter order of the Phoenix, The Club on PS3 160k
Mini Ninjas 360 150k
Fracture 360 130k
The BIGS 2 on 360 120k
Just Cause 360 110k (didn't this just get a sequel?)
Afrika 140k
Dark Void PS3 100k
Timeshift PS3 90k
Aquanauts Holiday 40k
The frak? Endless Ocean 1 hit 980k
And what you should be thinking through all this, is how the marketing and development budgets compare, as we've heard from studio heads and publishing executives, the average price of making a Wii game is comparable to last gen, even cheaper in most cases. Measuring success on those relative terms and these so-called failures, don't seem quite so bad.
So as its been pointed out, you can sell a game on two platforms when making an HD game. Sure, but Wii is a single platform, so its game sales should be compared to a single platform. Unless we follow the opposite, logical, implication - that single platform games are expected to sell as much as multiplatform games?
Aside from the Wii games highlighted in bold I can only think of two games whose sales have made headlines and that is Capcom's Dark Void and Bionic Commando. I think here the company is generally so successful, they stood out. And because the US arm of the company was coming under scrutiny.