Archangel3371 said:

Star Tropics number one baby!

27. Metal Gear Solid 2

I don't know if there was a more hyped up game than MGS2, at the very least its near the top. MGS1 was the PS game of the generation, a landmark title for stealth games and cinematic storytelling in games. Then came THE trailer, to go from MGS1 blocky graphics to the graphics they showed in that trailer. On a tanker, in the rain. solid snake so detailed, I could not believe my eyes. MGS2 had the most impressive graphics of any next gen at the time, so not only were we getting the sequel to THE GAME but it was a graphical power house, the kind you want to show off your new PS2. So MGS2 became an event game, so much so that it's demo is legendary, and what a demo it was. MGS2 sported massive improvements to the controls in MGS1. The ability to change to first person at any time completely changes the dynamics in how to handle encounters. Aiming becomes an actual gameplay mechanic, enemies react in realistic ways, gunfire causes mayhem to the environment with objects exploding, gun fire opening up flour bags, lights could be shot and more. Oh and ice melts! Kojima is a master of many things but I feel his attention to detail is what really sets him apart from other directors. When I play a Kojima game I expect to try an action in game and it causing a reaction that would surprise me. MGS2 is filled with those small and large details alike, it makes the game world feel alive in ways most games don't ever come close to replicating.

More trailers would come out, how exciting it will be to see Solid Snake back in action. Reviews were gushing, another classic was at hand, its more of what we wanted. I buy the game, take it home and I read the instruction manual first as was my custom back when we had manuals. I look through the very detailed manual with the cool comic layout to teach you all the ways to incapacitate enemies. Then in the manual it mentions the tanker and the plant. Ok whats the plant, it then also said you would play as a character named Raiden... uhhh WHO?! I never seen this guy in any trailer, so I play as him for a short while I guess, weird. I start the game and that intro starts up, THAT INTRO, THAT MUSIC, to this day I watch the full thing every time I start it up.

The first few hours are eveything I could dream of. Even though I played the demo to death the full game has more rooms, more details, it's an incredibly well designed area. I loved the dog tag system, it made me want to hold up every enemy, its a great collectable that makes you play a very different way than if you are just avoiding guards. The gameplay was top classic MGS, it was still top down but the first person aiming made every room and encounter have way more options. I love playing MGS2, it is so smooth, perfect 60 fps, controls are a joy, everything is so responsive. Going no kill, no alert was a great challenge. Finding every dog tag required many playthroughs. Oh and Substance, when they stripped away the story and just focused on gameplay scenarios the gameplay shined so much. This is a masterpiece of gameplay and controls.

Yet it is my least favorite MGS game because it disappointed me at the time. Once the tanker is over you control Raiden in the biggest hidden twist in gaming history, how they kept that a secret is still mindblowing and cannot be replicated in today's world. The plant is a bland orange environment where everything looks the same. Sure Raiden controls the same as Snake but it doesn't feel the same, which I get it, thats the story, MGS2 goes great lengths to have a meta reason for Raiden that goes beyond the game and comments on the player. The story in MGS2 is beyond brilliant especially looking back now at how prophetic it all seems. I didn't know what a MEME was back in 2001. Social media did not exist. The lecture at the end of MGS2 sounded like the ramblings of a madman and now it is so on the nose it is frightening. Yes I have appreciation for what Kojima was attempting to do but I feel it came at the expense of the game. For one the pacing was off, MGS1 felt like a top tier action movie while MGS2 had so many stops and long winded cutscenes that I wondered where is the energy. MGS1 had way better boss battles, this is a series built on bosses the downgrade was so apparent that it really hurt my opnion on the game. Fatman? Fortune isnt even a real boss. The jet is just a new version of the Hind D. These characters were not as interesting, the moments smaller in scale. There was a lack of epic setpieces. It never reaches the highs of the furst game.  Rather than ending on that high a great action film gives you, I was sitting watching an hour long cutscene of the weirdest shit, I don't care how relevant it is today, that hurts the pacing.

With that MGS2 still stands among the best games of that generation. Gameplay is sublime and despite the boring setting MGS2 at least tries to mix things up. There is freezing of the bombs, fighting the jet, listing to heartbeats, swiming through mines, giving sniper cover fire to Emma, fighting with the sword, its still MGS and its still Kojima. I appreciated the game more when I skipped all cutscenes and played just to have fun and get better ranks. So yeah, I was kind of disappointed in MGS2, lucky for me that was about the only hiccup Kojima had cause what we got next more than made up for it.

Your description of MGS2 is how I'd describe 4. But its terrible pacing isn't caused by interesting social commentary. Still has the probably the best QTE ever, though.

26.

edgecrusher said:

Half life Alyx

Precisely. We must wait until Half-Life Alyx is released in case the list needs retconning.

26. Devil May Cry 3

DMC3 is the best hack and slash action game ever made. It takes the ideas from DMC that pretty much defined the genre and pushed the boundaries of what could be done with action games. Everything DMC4 and 5 have done all started because of the genius of DMC3 and I would argue neither of those games have the level design or memorable bosses that DMC 3 does. This game is focused on one character, the BEST character, Dante. Because of this it has a great steady flow of upgrades and new weapons for one combat style, you don't have to play levels of lesser gameplay, its all the best combat from start to finish. What makes this combat shine so much is how super responsive it all is, taking elements from fighting games, dealing with frame counts, allowing fkexibility in combos that feel like you can break the game but it is all by design. Regular players can still enjoy the frentic deep action but master players can unlock a style of combat that looks like a ballet of destruction, done by incredible mastery of the controls and timing.

I love the style system, it made me want to play the game multiple ways to see the changes in the combat. Even then I wished for real time style switching and more weapon switching options. All these things would be addressed in later DMC games and yes those games have deeper combat but there is something about DMC3 and how well it was designed that keeps it at the top. The game still has some of that DMC1 DNA where its kind of like RE where you explore an enviornment that wraps around itself, finding items to unlock ways forward in a central location, in this game being a tower. Virgil is introduced in this game and quickly becomes a fan favorite, the special edition of the game allows a playable version of him for a totally different fighting experience. The boss battles with Virgil are amoung the best ever, heart pumping sweaty palms all the way. I loved the crazy collection of bosses and each gave Dante a new weapon to play with. The craziest is the guitar which I feel started the series trend of really wild off the wall weaponry. The original version of the game was hard to a fault, with almost no continues and brutal checkpoints, I did beat it that way but I dont recommend it any more. The SE fixed all the issues and is easily the gold standard.

DMC3 is a remarkable achievement, pacing the way for the best combat which was yet to come but its brilliance is proven time and again as they could never create a complete campiagn that is as great as DMC3 is from start to finish.

Well we don't agree on all that. Yes enemy design is a step back from 1. Bosses I think it's the best in the series easily.

A note about DMCV, it came out after I made my list and got started. It 100% deserves a spot in my top 100 whatever games but I don't think it's DMC3 levels of great and I think it's significantly better than 1 and 4 so I didn't want to group it with others and I couldn't create a spot on the list for it. If I were to fit it in it would be about 40 after Ninja Gaiden.

The suspense is killing me!

24. The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker and Skyward Sword

The two lesser 3D Zeldas, at least for me, for some strange reason Wind Waker has become very popular lately when at launch it was clearly met with more indifference. I'm going to start with Skyward Sword as its the one I like least of the two, for some this is crazy and for others it makes sense, everyone seems to have their own favorite Zelda. Skyward Sword was the most experimental Zelda until BOTW came. It was going to use motion control to bring 1:1 sword combat to Zelda and have new items that make use of the motion control abilities. That alone made this the worst Zelda game for some as ther are a bunch of people that are allergic to motion controls, I think they are fantastic and the future of controls so this alone made this a super intriguing Zelda game. It was the first time in many years where just controlling Link would be a new experience so I could not wait to get my hands on it, I went so far as to download the leaked E3 demo on PC and got it working using a hack so I could play the game before release. It controled like a dream for me, combat went from servicable at best to something that you could build a game around. Strangely the IR sensor was not used for aiming so aiming with a bow felt more clunky in this game than in TP. I loved all the items that made use of gyro, bombs could be rolled like bowling balls, guiding a beetle thorugh the air all worked great.

What did not work well was the flight segments which made up this games "overworld", an analog stick would have been fine for the bird but instead you have to move the control around and it just felt clunky. That was just the start of the issues, Aunoma decided to make the entire gamepworld like one big dungeon meaning a lot of the game was linear. The exploration part was in the sky which was just empty space with a few little hubs to check out, that feeling of exploring a big world was kind of left out. The game design of the on ground segments were really good but it suffered from lots of repetition. You return to the same three areas multiple times. You fight the same big boss in a pretty annoying battle three times. I think back to how well crafted OoT and TP are and I don't get what happened here.

That said when it comes to dungeons OH MY, easily some of the best in the series. I would argue the Lanaryu Mining Facility is the best dungeon in series history and one of the finest pieces of gaming I have ever played. A genius dungeon with so many mechanics at play, mainly using time, its a level of design no one dares to create, only Zelda games. Then there is the Ancient Cistern and it's beautiful layout, the pirate ship that sails across a desert and the crazy dungeon where you control the placement of every room. It's creative experiences like these that put Zelda higher than most other game. It may not be my favorite in this series but it is still a phenomenal game.

Good old Wind Waker, it broke the internet when it premiered with it's cartoony graphics. During the GC reveal we got a teaser of what Zelda could look like on GC and we got this amazing OoT inspired video, thats what everyone wanted. So when Wind Waker was shown to be this very childish cell shaded game the community went nuts. And now its looked back on fondly for its timeless art design, a gorgeous game to play. In terms of art direction, story and maybe even music Wind Waker is near the top of the series.  But Wind Waker had a few big issues, for one it felt incomplete. There was the tacked on triforce hunt at the end which did not bother me at all because I 100% every Zelda game but I saw it as wasted potential. It had five dungeons and they were not all that great, only one or two I felt were worthy of the series. It also was piss easy, to the point where I don't know why heart containers and potions are even needed any more.

Those elements made the Wind Waker a sort of disappointment for me. I recently played MM for the first time before this and it became my favorite game ever so WW had a lot to live up too. It came out near my birthday so I recieved it as a birthday gift and I distinctly remember that opening with the scroll and the original Zelda theme playing, I was in love. Onset Island was like a Disney cartoon come to life, there was so much expression on every characters face, it all looked stunning. The prologue lasted a littl long but soon you were off to sea and thats when WW makes its mark on the series. If SS was to linear, WW went maybe too open. Here was a open sea that was laid out as a grid with each square on that grid having an island or place of interest. I love getting 100% in these games so this gaming have a magic grid map that slowly reveals piece by piece as you explore was perfect, like a checklist of what I needed to do. I LOVED the open sea it gave me the sense of adventure no Zelda did since the original.

The highs are great, returning to Hyrule castle in black in white and filling it with life was an awe inspiring moment. The final battle is as epic as it comes with a Ganon that is actually a three dimensional character.  The lack of great dungeons and really unique items kind of hurt the experience a bit for me, I was waiting to reach the highs of the last two Zelda games but it never came. No matter though, it still has all the elements that make the series a classic and I find this game such a joy to replay.