travo said:Dvader said:SPOILER TIME............................................................................................................
My favorite part of the ending is going to rapture. Totally geeked me out, sad it was for such a quick moment. The comstock thing is a bit weird, for one they cheat with the different voice actor, Also didn't Slate seem to know both Dewitt and Comstock during the battle, maybe it was worded cleverly. Still really cool interdimensional story.
But damn what a condemnation on religion. Man becomes religious so he creates a horrible slave society in the sky and becomes evil. Yikes.
SPOILERS BELOW!!
Yeah, I was a little uncomfortable with the anti religious theme. It's something we saw in the first Bioshock as well. I was hoping, actually predicted that this would tie into Rapture. I just didn't see it happening like this. I was thinking the group would decide to build underwater and we'd see a young Andrew Ryan amongst the residents up in the clouds. I actually like the real ending better.
All Slate said was Comstock wasn't there. He wasn't. He was Dewitt at the time. If you listened to the announcements throughout that section, Comstock also mentioned something about rumors existing, saying that he fathered a bastard child with an Indian mother. I guess that's where Anna came from. Makes sense if you know a little bit of American Indian Creationism:
"The woman and the man dreamed that God was dreaming them.
God dreamed them while he sang and shook his maracas, immersed in tobacco smoke, and he was happy and also trembling with doubt and mystery.
The Makiritare Indians know that if God dreams of food, he fructifies and gives to eat. If God dreams of life, he is born and gives birth.
The woman and the man dreamed that a great, shining egg appeared in God’s dream. Inside the egg they sang and danced and made a racket, because they were crazy with the desire to be born. They dreamed that in God’s dream joy was stronger than doubt and mystery; and God, dreaming, created them, and singing said:
“I break this egg and the woman is born and the man is born. And together they will live and die. But they will be born again. The will be born and will die again and once more will be born. And they shall never cease to be born, because death is a lie."
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If different dimensions are created by different choices being made, Columbia represents humanity where they chose to believe in a higher power, greater than themselves (Religion).
Rapture represented humanity where THEY chose to be the highest power (No Gods, No Kings, Only Man).
Isn't that odd though? When I think "Rapture" I think Religion, when I think "Columbia" I think of Washington D.C. and Goverment and Humanity (the U.S.) being the "Higher Power."
It is possible that Dewitt is ALSO Andrew Ryan in a dimension where he refused the Baptism, walked away and believed more in the Power of Man than religion. If you remember from BioShock, only people sharing Ryan's genetic structure could operate a Bathysphere, which Booker obviously does.
I also don't believe it was gambling "Debts" Booker was paying off when he sold Anna. I think his Debts were his Sins. Fathering a bastard daughter, his participation in the Battle at Wounded Knee, his association with the Pinkertons. Rather than raise a child as the man he was (Booker) he gave his child to Comstock to be raised as a Lamb instead and to take up the "throne" of Columbia. It was then her job to wipe out the City where Booker's sins were the worst: New York... Why is it ALWAYS New York?
Anna? Is that you?
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The only issue with the Andrew Ryan theory is the major time difference, at least 40 years apart as Bioshock is in the 60s. Ryan could be a decendant of Booker though. Or a time traveling Booker that ended up stuck in that era. My theory is that Ryan is just an ordinary guy that ends up in Columbia and actually rejects the notion of religion but is in love with all the technology and power they have. So he finds and opperates the time machine gets sent into the future where he uses everything he learned to make Rapture. I would like for this to be DLC.
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PS: Knowing me, knowing my phobias: I ---ABSOLUTELY--- HATED the fate of the Songbird. HATED IT. HATED IT. HATED IT. It made me cry a little.
Dvader said:Spoilerssss.......................................................................................................................
The only issue with the Andrew Ryan theory is the major time difference, at least 40 years apart as Bioshock is in the 60s. Ryan could be a decendant of Booker though. Or a time traveling Booker that ended up stuck in that era. My theory is that Ryan is just an ordinary guy that ends up in Columbia and actually rejects the notion of religion but is in love with all the technology and power they have. So he finds and opperates the time machine gets sent into the future where he uses everything he learned to make Rapture. I would like for this to be DLC.
Maybe Anna Dewitt gives birth to Andrew Ryan?
Ryan builds Rapture around 1946, btw.
Any comments on any of these theories, Travo?
Wait. You're at work on your iPhone, aren't you? You can't read them then. Nevermind. Maybe later.
Spoilers below....
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I have a hard time highlighting letters on my phone.
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The Anna/ Little Sister theory is also something that I considered. I was really under the impression that there would be a major connection. My thoughts were Anna would somehow be either one of the first Little Sisters or a Tenenbaum type trying to protect them.
Vader. I am thinking I may have pulled an Aspro while playing this game for the first time. I can't go back and check now because I've started 1999 mode --BUT-- if you press and hold the weapon select button, does it bring up a Weapon Ring like the Vigor ring? Can you hold more than 2 weapons at once in Normal Mode?
phantom_leo said:Vader. I am thinking I may have pulled an Aspro while playing this game for the first time. I can't go back and check now because I've started 1999 mode --BUT-- if you press and hold the weapon select button, does it bring up a Weapon Ring like the Vigor ring? Can you hold more than 2 weapons at once in Normal Mode?
No, only two weapons at a time.
Oh. Ok. That's weird. One of the descriptions of '1999' mode said you could only carry two weapons in IT, so I assumed you could carry more in Normal.
2 weapons in 1999 mode? There's something seriously wrong with this picture.
Foolz said:2 weapons in 1999 mode? There's something seriously wrong with this picture.
. Its not different for 99 mode, that is just the way the game is.
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Playing again, trying to pick up the clues along the way:
It seems whenever Dewitt meets Comstock he gets a nosebleed.
The person writing the biography of Comstock says: "...everything before his (Comstock's) Baptism was left along the riverside."
Elizabeth can open Tears because her pinky was left behind in one of the alternate dimensions. "A piece of her was left behind, and, apparently, the Universe doesn't like mixing its peas with its porridge."
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Columbia can be a very different place depending on how you play the game. The first time I went in, throwing around Vigors, Possessing the vending machines, not realizing that I was causing them to notice and attack me by doing so. The Boardwalk by Soldier's Field and the Hall of Heroes takes on quite a different feeling when everyone isn't trying to kill you from the start. For example, the hot dog salesman by the Ice Cream shop will say to you: "How about a hot dog for you and your lovely daughter?" This prompts a conversation between Elizabeth and Booker where she asks his age: "Somewhere South of 40 and North of You" is how he responds. Totally missed this the first time.
In the Souvenier shop Elizabeth starts to run around excitedly looking at everyting until she gets to the stuffed Song Bird section. She lets out a gasp and her expression changes to fear and she nervously runs away from the section. Little touches like this make the game that much more AMAZING!
I dont think I saw either of those things, sounds awesome.
Similarities between the BioShocks:
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- Besides the obvious "Constants and Variables" of A Man, a Lighthouse and a City, there were many similarities between the three games. **Plasmids and Vigors and the Vending Machines aside!** I'll just drop a few of them in here. Feel free to add any you may have observed!
- The Child kills the Parent: Jack Ryan and Andrew Ryan. Eleanor and Delta. Elizabeth and DeWitt.
- The Child has a Dark-Skinned Nanny: Grace Holloway and Eleanor. Daisy Fitzroy and Elizabeth. Both Nannies become Movement Leaders in the poorer sections of their respective Cities.
- The Leaders of Industry are killed in non-interactive Scenes: Jack kills Andrew Ryan. Elizabeth kills Fink.
- Many similar Enemies: Houdini Splicers = Zealots of the Lady. Big Daddy = The Songbird. Nitro Splicers = The Fireman. Brute Splicers = Handyman.
- Stuffed Big Daddies and Stuffed Songbirds.
- Sofia Lamb's Idea of Utopia = Columbia? Sofia or Eleanor Lamb = Elizabeth "the Lamb"...?
- Booker DeWitt and Big Daddy...
- Both games have a 'Memorial Park' where you get special Gear for lighting a torch on a mausoleum.
- Prominent female scientists: Brigid Tenebaum and Rosalind Lutece.
- In one of my crazier moments while pondering the game, I actually came up with a theory that Andrew Ryan was another dimension Elizabeth (as Robert Lutece was Rosalind) and she created 'Free' Rapture to counter the controlled Columbia, and that's why Booker was able to use the Bathysphere. Anna = Andrew? LOL! Yeah... I gave a lot of thought to all of the games. I didn't say it was always "rational" thought! Who knows if any of the mysteries will be answered in DLCs or not...!
These are all I can think of off the top of my head, but I'll add more as I remember!
Can't hide this, but it's not really a Spoiler:
First view of Rapture.
First view of Columbia.
One has a whale, the other a Zepplin!
When I was young and alone, I came up with a theory. It stated: "If the universe is infinite and human imagination has its limits, anything we can imagine must exist somewhere in all the heavens." I always imagined myself with a different life, one of my own, where I was free and happy. Talk about prophetic, this game was the story of my life.
--Fin.