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[gamasutra.com] 360 sells six million in Europe gamasutra.com gamingeek
[gamersyde.com] Far Cry 2 video The 24 hour system shown gamersyde.com gamingeek
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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:27:35
archangel3371 said:

Well this new market caught everyone by surprise so it's only natural for a company to suddenly target this new audience and why the hell shouldn't they.

Well how about you ask how iPod's competitors are doing. There will be your answer.

Should Microsoft copy Nintendo's business model, yes, but it is too late with the 360. It would be like turning a car into a rocket. It is not going to work. The wii is designed from the get go with the Blue Ocean Stategy in mind. They made the competitors irrelevant. The Xbox brand has no hope to beat nintendo at their own game, the same way nintendo had no hope to beat sony at their own game. But they could copy the business model and at least make profit next gen. Or the could try the same disruption Nintendo did with the Wii, but that required research and direction.

P.S. xbox avatar are ugly, at least the Mii are kinda cute!

The VG Press
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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:28:35

Brothers in Arms Wii looks like shit.

Even the controls don't look like they're as good as Metroid or Medal of Honor.

1077586.png?35537807

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:32:45

Avatars are gay. On any system.

And why do they always have to be "family-friendly"? Why not make it so you could make, say, a crazy demon avatar or some shit? Especially on the Xbox. Hey...lets go play Gears of War with our cute avatars guys!!!! Weeeeeeee.

1077586.png?35537807

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:07:54

New and Improved DS?

I hope the new DS is true. I need a good excuse to buy another one after my old DS Lite broke.

BIA: Double Time (Wii)

I remember reading an interview when that game was first announced for Wii, and the dev basically stated that they were hoping to translate over all of the Xbox 1 graphics and A.I. to Wii intact. I pretty much lost interest in that game when I read that because they made it clear that they had no real intention to make the graphics or A.I. better for Wii despite Wii's more capable hardware. From that gameplay footage, I can see that they did indeed keep the bar as low as possible. It's a joke that they are charging full price for it.

Slim 360?

I simply don't care if it's true or not. I certainly don't want one.

Sony: Sackboy is Our Answer to Mario

I don't know about that, but after seeing several videos of LBP, I'm really hoping Sony drops the price of the PS3 down to something more affordable. That's the first non-mulitplatform game on PS3 that makes me stand up and take notice. I wonder how long it'll be before Microsoft copies it? Nyaa

The Conduit Pics

Thanks, GG. That game gets better and better looking everytime they release new pics or videos. I only hope the gameplay will match those great visuals.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:31:30

Sony and Microsoft to exit console wars after PS3 and Xbox 360?

I found this on the GGD. I can't imagine that it'll come true, but it's still an interesting read.

The VG Press

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:11:34
archangel3371 said:

Well this new market caught everyone by surprise so it's only natural for a company to suddenly target this new audience and why the hell shouldn't they. That should be the goal of any hardware manufacturer which is to get the system into as many homes as possible. It's not like they did a complete 180 because they already have the developer support for the hardcore audience lined up to the hilt and that audience already knows this so what would be the point in not doing a full on "family-friendly" campaign to quickly get the casuals attention as fast as possible. See this is exactly the kind of hypocrisy that I'm talking about in which the undertones are clearly visible by some in the gaming community. People talk about how Nintendo is riding high because they tapped into a new market and they say how in order for others to catch up they need to do the same. Except when they actually do this then they are just copying. That to me sounds like they somewhat have this notion in their head that this new market belongs to Nintendo if only on a subconcious level.

This slimming down concept wasn't something new when Sony first did it for consoles let alone pretty much any electronic device in general. Slimming down a console shouldn't even enter into a thought of 'copy cat' in the most vague and slightest concept. This is how companies bring down costs and make devices cheaper and more efficient.

You see I find it hypocritical when people keep bagging on MS for bringing out games that people want. It's freaking Kareoke. Seriously how many different ways can you do a game where you sing into a mic? It's like any other type of game yet for some reason people want to grasp on to certain ones. Maybe they should bag on MS to for trying to get a bunch of JRPG's on the 360 because people wanted them but since they weren't the first to popularize them. How about FPS and WRPG games then? Since MS popularized those games for consoles then how about bagging on systems that try to build their library with those kind of games.

Again what the Wii brought to gaming was all incredibly new so skepticism about it was the perfectly normal reaction. It found a new market and one that needs to be catered to and not just by Nintendo so when I see things that condemn others for trying to reach out to that audience that strikes me as hypocritical and fanboyish because if you think and like how Nintendo's approach was then by proxy you should at the very least be interested in how another might follow in those same footsteps.

Ugh, I was never one of these guys who said that the others need to catch up by doing the same thing and tapping this so-called casual audience. I'm with Edgecrusher, Sony sold over 100 million with a gaming audience that's why my eyes roll into the back of my head when I see these uninspired boring attempts to capture this non-gamer audience. Ubisofts crap for instance or these casual gaming divisions being segmented off from gaming publishers. Some attempts are pretty obvious, or even feeble. I don't think you'll find one person here that will say 100% truthfully that they don't think that the MS Avatars weren't a blatant reaction to Mii's. I think it inspires nothing but apathy from gamers a lot of the time, especially in the console market, where traditionally everyone is measuring his wang against everyone elses.

As for your examples about JRPGs etc I think you're exagerrating to make a point, but I have bagged on the JRPGs on 360 concept. Japanese RPGs are undoubtably strongest on the undoubtably weakest performing hardware, in Japan. Not that I would criticise MS for that, good job old boy, but crap I question some of the publishers jumping on board so eagerly. I think it's probably a combination of things, PS3 coming late to the market and being more expensive than anyone imagined was a big point too, as well as the rising cost of multiplatform development - as well as the skepticism about Wii.

I think that "skepticism" is a mild word for some of the crap that went around for a long time since before Wii's release to a couple of years after, hell we even saw it on DS. I find it hypocritical when journalists/developers/publishers and rivals, oh and gamers too, keep "gimmicking" the system or criticising it for being a fad or a casual machine, then go ahead and try to ape certain aspects of the gimmick system for success.

I won't criticise a company for trying to reach out to an audience but I'll sure as hell roll my eyes when their attempts are uninspired. I want to see some originality that's all and I can't be expected to cheer on everyone trying to ape everyone else.

edgecrusher said:

Brothers in Arms Wii looks like shit.

Even the controls don't look like they're as good as Metroid or Medal of Honor.

Thought you'd like that one.

ravenprose said:

BIA: Double Time (Wii)

I remember reading an interview when that game was first announced for Wii, and the dev basically stated that they were hoping to translate over all of the Xbox 1 graphics and A.I. to Wii intact. I pretty much lost interest in that game when I read that because they made it clear that they had no real intention to make the graphics or A.I. better for Wii despite Wii's more capable hardware. From that gameplay footage, I can see that they did indeed keep the bar as low as possible. It's a joke that they are charging full price for it.

Game looks like a sack of crap.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:18:34
ravenprose said:

Sony and Microsoft to exit console wars after PS3 and Xbox 360?

I found this on the GGD. I can't imagine that it'll come true, but it's still an interesting read.

Sounds like he's exagerrating a lot. But it is true that PS3 has been a really expensive project that Sony will want to run for as long as possible to recoup the cash. It makes me wonder about next gen. Will there be the traditional massive investment in R&D? Will there be this traditional subsidisation of hardware cost and an attempt to recoup cash on the software?

Will this whole different (cheap ass) Nintendo philosyphy of making things cheap and doing something different work out? If so who would do that?

Where does Nintendo now go, having released a two screened touch screen device and a wand waving mini-machine?

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:19:43

It looks like the PS2 version of BIA....not the Xbox version. Hell I wish companies would try to match Xbox on Wii more.....at least that would be a step up from PS2.

Looks like I'll just grab the Xbox versions instead.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:23:51

Just more proof that the industry is heading for standardization. Its better to have the industry share in the hardware costs, content, and creative minds, than for 2 or 3 companies to control it all.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:28:30

I would argue that big games like Halo get MORE used game sales than smaller games, nd the smaller games don't have to worry about it as much.

If a game's not that popular, it means there's not 10 million used copies like Halo has...which means you'll have to buy a new copy. And Bungie shouldn't be complaining with all the money they've made...they sound like Lars Ulrich. Hell, M$ was selling Halo for $50 for like 3 years.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:37:14
gamingeek said:

Where does Nintendo now go, having released a two screened touch screen device and a wand waving mini-machine?

What's next you ask!

Any more questions?

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:26:56

I do think there are some things that aren't really worth copying from Nintendo this generation. The controller for instance probably wouldn't be worth it because it's something that needs to be present from the outset and is a device that needs to be universal for systems from the beginning. Things like avatars are much more benign in there effects and are much easier to implement to consumers. I think Microsoft has done things that should be copied by it's competitors as well top one being achievements this is why I'm glad to see Sony implement their trophy system. While it's something that would have been nice to have from the very beginning it's something that is easily introduced during a console's lifecycle to lay ground work for that company's next system in line.

I don't think it's ever to late to start marketing to a particular consumer segment though via games and advertising. IMO it would seem kind of foolish to see a targetable audience and just wait another 2 to 3 years when you bring out a new system to begin to advertise to them. You need to get into their heads as soon as possible. It may or may not immediately payoff but you have to at least let them know your out there.

I feel there are things done by all three of the manufacturers that should be copied by their competitors. If I see something done by a manufacturer that is cool and I think it's a cool feature then it either makes me want that system or want to be offered something like it for the system that I do have that will give me that kind of experience. Sometimes I will even want both.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:42:17
gamingeek said:
ravenprose said:

Sony and Microsoft to exit console wars after PS3 and Xbox 360?

I found this on the GGD. I can't imagine that it'll come true, but it's still an interesting read.

Sounds like he's exagerrating a lot. But it is true that PS3 has been a really expensive project that Sony will want to run for as long as possible to recoup the cash. It makes me wonder about next gen. Will there be the traditional massive investment in R&D? Will there be this traditional subsidisation of hardware cost and an attempt to recoup cash on the software?

Will this whole different (cheap ass) Nintendo philosyphy of making things cheap and doing something different work out? If so who would do that?

Where does Nintendo now go, having released a two screened touch screen device and a wand waving mini-machine?

Yeah I kind of felt like he was over-exaggerating as well. I was certain that I had read somewhere that MS was making a profit off of each 360 sold quite awhile ago, like over a year or so I believe. Back then I think it was $25 or more depending on the SKU so they must be making a little more now or at least up until the recent pricecuts. Isn't it also rumoured that there are even some developers working on making software for Microsoft's next console in line? So I strongly think that there is at least one more system in the works from each of the three current competitors.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:14:24
gamingeek said:
ravenprose said:

Sony and Microsoft to exit console wars after PS3 and Xbox 360?

I found this on the GGD. I can't imagine that it'll come true, but it's still an interesting read.

Sounds like he's exagerrating a lot. But it is true that PS3 has been a really expensive project that Sony will want to run for as long as possible to recoup the cash. It makes me wonder about next gen. Will there be the traditional massive investment in R&D? Will there be this traditional subsidisation of hardware cost and an attempt to recoup cash on the software?

Will this whole different (cheap ass) Nintendo philosyphy of making things cheap and doing something different work out? If so who would do that?

Where does Nintendo now go, having released a two screened touch screen device and a wand waving mini-machine?

I'd imagine Nintendo to just do small little improvements kind of like the IPOD.

Basically - 2009: Slimmer Wii with Built in HDD

                   2011: Very Slim Wii with Bigger Built in HDD, Better AA, and HD Capablities

                   2013: Portable Wii with self charging battery and LCD on the side of the console

Etc.

edgecrusher said:

Just more proof that the industry is heading for standardization. Its better to have the industry share in the hardware costs, content, and creative minds, than for 2 or 3 companies to control it all.

Agreed. I am so sick of this corrupt ass industry. Why do developers have to pick what console they have to make games for due to its "image" or the console manufactures "control choice". Why can't I get a HD shooter with the graphics of Crysis with Wii Motion Plus controls? Why can't I get a game that is basically a JRPG that has the art-style of Skies of Arcadia with Free-Online Co-op Play and plays with a tradional controller? Why aren't all console games avaliable through Digital Distribution?

Looking at things it is pretty obvious why there has never been such a medium like gaming where you have multiple empires all sharing significant slices of pie in the hardware market. Publishers don't like observing all the alternatives and don't like taking too many risks. And the consumers are just fed up with missing out on upcoming titles because they don't like how that company handles things or the direction it is going. I woudn't be surprised if this was the last console generation in a traditional sense. The market and stakes are too big to be laid in the hands of 3 companies.


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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:17

I'm all for standardization too. I can't for the life of me understand why developers/publishers are still trying to support this multi-console industry. It doesn't appear to be in their best interests. Spreading themselves thin by trying to make games for 6 consoles (4 home consoles, and 2 portables) is just crazy.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:33:13

You know what my all-time favourite western animated series is, is the 1994 Spiderman. Boy did I ever love that show. Great animation and the voice-cast was perfect. I also love how they made each season a complete story arc broken up into chapters.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:42:59

^^Punk you can play with the wiimote on your PC. There are youtube videos of a guy playing half-life 2 on his PC with a wiimote.

The market and stakes are too big to be laid in the hands of 3 companies.

There are markets that dwarf the video game market and they are also in hands of a few companies. And what's this corruption nonsense. Competing does not equal corruption.

About standarization,never. Video games can evolve over a wide spectrum, no way it can be standerised. They do not have to be constrained by a t.v. Even Miyamoto has expressed interest to move away from the television.  Standardization not possible unless you want the technical development to stop.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:52:34

Yeah standardisation is looking to be an inevitability but some of it's potential drawbacks really worry me. No more will we see hardware being sold for cheaper then it's cost to manufacture. Not that really expect companies to do this but it sure is a nice bonus. Lack of cool new features being added to always try and one-up the competition. Developers have to go with what they've got because there is no option that may better implement their idea.

However there are some excellent pluses. One standard system means every one gets to play all available games and will get the exact same experience. Developers need only worry about one platform of hardware so they can use it more effectively. I had another plus but it slipped my mind at the moment. LOL

Anyway I guess the positives outweigh the negatives for having a standard system.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:55:58

The DVD market has been standardized since its creation, yet that didn't stop manufacture's from improving upon the hardware, nor has it prevented improvements in disk technology such as HD-DVD and Blu-Ray from being created. I see no reason why the games market can't work the same way.

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Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:00:20
iga_bobovic said:

^^Punk you can play with the wiimote on your PC. There are youtube videos of a guy playing half-life 2 on his PC with a wiimote.

The market and stakes are too big to be laid in the hands of 3 companies.

There are markets that dwarf the video game market and they are also in hands of a few companies. And what's this corruption nonsense. Competing does not equal corruption.

About standarization,never. Video games can evolve over a wide spectrum, no way it can be standerised. They do not have to be constrained by a t.v. Even Miyamoto has expressed interest to move away from the television.  Standardization not possible unless you want the technical development to stop.

Is the game customized for the Wii-mote? No. So yeah it's pointless.

In terms with few companies having their share I was referring to that of the hardware. Yes Blu-ray is owned by a few companies but they don't give a flying crap of what the publishers nor do they have much control over the hardware other then it having to play Blu-ray. That isn't what is going on with gaming. To put it in perspective imagine a MP3 player that only plays certain MP3's. Imagine if the entire MP3 market was owned by only Apple, Creative, and Microsoft. Only certain songs work for certain players and all the artists have to abide by those 3 companies rules. That is what is currently going on for gaming, not like how it works with movies or music.

With gaming evolving how does that have to do with the topic? Look at the evolution of music from Records, 8-Track, Tapes, CD's, MP3's and music is standardized. Or movies with VHS, DVD, and Blu-Ray and music is standardized. How is gaming remotely different? Different forms of play? That could easily be taken care of the what would probably be 100's of hardware manufactures to cover that spectrum much like with music with digital downloads or movies with PC interface play and Computers with Touch Screen interfaces.

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