Thousands of years of practice: I don't think that matters much. If it did, chess would have been improved upon, but it hasn't. Chess boxing is, alright, though, I guess.
I disagree here, also. The issue with gameplay is a lack of direct interactivity compared to games that are not simulations: games will always suck, because they'll never be interactive enough (both in terms of gameplay and with other people). Even with 1:1 input and VR, the endless possibilities of simulation will actually be a huge limitation on creativity and audience enjoyment.
As for stories, film stories are barely a step above games. They suck, because the structure of film due to bad audience attention span is terrible and extremely shallow (and judging by television, even when attention span isn't an issue; the stories still suck: indeed, the simulation of actors are always going to be worse than characters who are fully expressed in writing, for instance; and the forward motion of time in TV/FILM is tremendously destructive to great writing). Films can be mediocre lyrical poems at best, but even then the "story" is entirely reliant on the painterly ability of the people making it and to an almost equal degree the sound design. Additionally, the gameplay even in Tetris is entirely dependent on the aesthetic quality of the game. I can't speak for anyone else, but if not for Tetris' hallucinogenic qualities, I'd never play it. Which is why I rarely play it, as I can hallucinate perfectly well on my own, thanks.
Even games about mastery suck as games if taken purely as games. See above.
Chess has evolved and has been improved upon. It's not like mister Chess one day climbed a mountain and came back down holding the board, pieces and rules. it just didn't change much the last 100 or so years.
So you're saying games are inferior to something like chess or football because you can't do the in game equivalent of chucking a chess piece at your opponents head or biting the oposing teams defender? I guess you could argue that a human element is lost as you are not in direct physical interaction, thus losing out on subtle body language and possibilities for intimidation and the likes. Bu alas, social life in general is losing its finer granularity due to a lot of it happening online now too. On the other hand, while you can bite someone in football, there are rules in sports to strictly govern what can and can not be done. The difference with games is that games don't need rules that everyone agrees to follow, as that which is not deemed desirable interactivity is just ommited through coding in the first place.
Which brings us to interactivity versus gameplay. Is the sport of Formula 1 racing inferior to something like basketball simply because there is less room for human interaction?
As for your last sentence, how videogames are a poor substitute for games in general, I feel that if you'd look more closely at these 'games' you are championing, you will find a lot of them to be crap and indeed inferior to some of the high points videogames have to offer. You are fast to compare videogames to the pinnacle of other media and forms of play. While it may be true that games might have not reached the same hights as the apex of those other forms of play or entertainment, it is wrong to deduce from that that all of gaming is thus worse than all of books/film/games.
You're also arguing on 2 fronts here: that stories are not as good as those in books (ignoring the fact that there are some pretty poor books out there) and that games can hold no candle against physical games in terms of gameplay (again, ignoring the heaps of grap physical games out there). I'd say that books are crap because their gameplay and interactivity is incredibly limited, and tabletop games in general are crap because those who create them can't manage to imbue them with a well told story. As such, videogames are clearly superior to books as well as pysical games.
Isn't it currently €19.99 due to some sale? Also, does the trick still work where if you demo game pass ultimate for a month for €1 all your Xbox Live credit gets converted to Game Pass Ultimate 1:1? Or you could simply take the game pass ultimate trial for €1 and get the games you're interested in at a nice discount (or does this apply to XBL members as well?).
Chess has evolved and has been improved upon. It's not like mister Chess one day climbed a mountain and came back down holding the board, pieces and rules. it just didn't change much the last 100 or so years.
So you're saying games are inferior to something like chess or football because you can't do the in game equivalent of chucking a chess piece at your opponents head or biting the oposing teams defender? I guess you could argue that a human element is lost as you are not in direct physical interaction, thus losing out on subtle body language and possibilities for intimidation and the likes. Bu alas, social life in general is losing its finer granularity due to a lot of it happening online now too. On the other hand, while you can bite someone in football, there are rules in sports to strictly govern what can and can not be done. The difference with games is that games don't need rules that everyone agrees to follow, as that which is not deemed desirable interactivity is just ommited through coding in the first place.
Which brings us to interactivity versus gameplay. Is the sport of Formula 1 racing inferior to something like basketball simply because there is less room for human interaction?
As for your last sentence, how videogames are a poor substitute for games in general, I feel that if you'd look more closely at these 'games' you are championing, you will find a lot of them to be crap and indeed inferior to some of the high points videogames have to offer. You are fast to compare videogames to the pinnacle of other media and forms of play. While it may be true that games might have not reached the same hights as the apex of those other forms of play or entertainment, it is wrong to deduce from that that all of gaming is thus worse than all of books/film/games.
You're also arguing on 2 fronts here: that stories are not as good as those in books (ignoring the fact that there are some pretty poor books out there) and that games can hold no candle against physical games in terms of gameplay (again, ignoring the heaps of grap physical games out there). I'd say that books are crap because their gameplay and interactivity is incredibly limited, and tabletop games in general are crap because those who create them can't manage to imbue them with a well told story. As such, videogames are clearly superior to books as well as pysical games.
That's actually exactly what happened, I don't know where you're getting your chess history from!
Is there less room for human interaction in Formula One than in basketball? I would suggest the opposite is true, given the technological R&D, the pit crews, the engineering teams, and the drivers. But we're comparing mediums, not sports. And my position is not that games are inferior to any other medium merely that, like every other montage medium (e.g. film), it is inferior at every element it does compared to mediums that specialise in those elements including gameplay; that doesn't mean what it makes out of merging those elements can't result in a work of art that is as great as the greatest art in specialised mediums.
I think I've only mentioned chess, and as much as I love Star Craft, if we're talking about how both games play, then I'm gonna go with chess every time; or even warhammer 40k. Now, if we're taking into account other elements in StarCraft such as its aesthetic and narrative combined with its gameplay, then I'll be happy with either experience.
Few games are as tactilely satisfying as reading a book, so I would suggest book gameplay is superior. In terms of interactivity, there's no comparison: the directness of reading and writing offers literally direct interaction between audience and reader; there's no comparison!
I'm not ignoring those facts, that's just not my point! For the record, I'd much rather play The Last of Us than read The Road, for instance!
That's actually exactly what happened, I don't know where you're getting your chess history from!
I got it from 'history of chess' on chess.com. I figured that would be a valid source
Foolz said:
And my position is not that games are inferior to any other medium merely that, like every other montage medium (e.g. film), it is inferior at every element it does compared to mediums that specialise in those elements including gameplay; that doesn't mean what it makes out of merging those elements can't result in a work of art that is as great as the greatest art in specialised mediums.
Hmmm... I had to relisten the bit in the podcast and must reluctantly acknowledge that was your original point. Must have missed that as I was listening while working. Note to self: only listen while doing things that don't require much of your attention as you used to, namely during driving.
It is an amazing and unparrallelled value. I dont; have it just cause I don't have the internet to support it. Plus I still like physical games.
Yeah great value for sure. I’m not subscribed to Game Pass either because I prefer to get my games on physical formats as well. Also I already have a big enough backlog of games currently so I really shouldn’t add any more to it with Game Pass.
Oh god what has foolz argued now, that gaming sucks? Gaming seems pretty great to me. I'll still choose it over any other medium. I guess I have to listen to this podcast at some point.
FF7 is everything I could have wanted and more. It takes what we loved and expands and expands growing the characters in ways that are so fulfilling. If you loved anyone in FF7 you will fall for them 10x over in this one. It's squares best work in years, decade maybe. Combat is also sublime, maybe it could use a little work in the camera department but this pseudo turn based action game is the evolution we have been seeing since in this series, finally with the right balance. The only problem is that this is just a small piece of the game, environments do get samey. I can't imagine what the future holds for the rest of FF7.
This weekend, GG, Bugs, Archie, and I undressed except for our underwear and partied at my neighbor's house in Animal Crossing. I also made a goat fly, ride a bicycle, blow up several cars and a gas station in Goat Simulator. Good times.
Been watching Maximilian play through the game on Twitch and my god it looks absolutely incredible. Final Fantasy VII is his all time favourite game and holds a very special place for him so it’s been really fun watching him enjoy the game so much. I’m very hyped to play this myself when it hits the other platforms.
Travo, GG, and Bugs watched as I danced around in Stitches house with only my underwear and a mask this weekend. Very briefly logged into Red Dead Redemption 2 online just to get my free gold bars.
Finished Pokemon Shield, good game. Now have started Diablo 3 on Switch, but also have been playing Splatoon on Wii and Splatoon on Switch. Thinking about playing Mission Impossible on Playstation 1.
Damn, why is Sea of Thieves so expensive to buy?
So you'll be coerced to pay for game pass instead. They're evil
Chess has evolved and has been improved upon. It's not like mister Chess one day climbed a mountain and came back down holding the board, pieces and rules. it just didn't change much the last 100 or so years.
So you're saying games are inferior to something like chess or football because you can't do the in game equivalent of chucking a chess piece at your opponents head or biting the oposing teams defender? I guess you could argue that a human element is lost as you are not in direct physical interaction, thus losing out on subtle body language and possibilities for intimidation and the likes. Bu alas, social life in general is losing its finer granularity due to a lot of it happening online now too. On the other hand, while you can bite someone in football, there are rules in sports to strictly govern what can and can not be done. The difference with games is that games don't need rules that everyone agrees to follow, as that which is not deemed desirable interactivity is just ommited through coding in the first place.
Which brings us to interactivity versus gameplay. Is the sport of Formula 1 racing inferior to something like basketball simply because there is less room for human interaction?
As for your last sentence, how videogames are a poor substitute for games in general, I feel that if you'd look more closely at these 'games' you are championing, you will find a lot of them to be crap and indeed inferior to some of the high points videogames have to offer. You are fast to compare videogames to the pinnacle of other media and forms of play. While it may be true that games might have not reached the same hights as the apex of those other forms of play or entertainment, it is wrong to deduce from that that all of gaming is thus worse than all of books/film/games.
You're also arguing on 2 fronts here: that stories are not as good as those in books (ignoring the fact that there are some pretty poor books out there) and that games can hold no candle against physical games in terms of gameplay (again, ignoring the heaps of grap physical games out there). I'd say that books are crap because their gameplay and interactivity is incredibly limited, and tabletop games in general are crap because those who create them can't manage to imbue them with a well told story. As such, videogames are clearly superior to books as well as pysical games.
Isn't it currently €19.99 due to some sale? Also, does the trick still work where if you demo game pass ultimate for a month for €1 all your Xbox Live credit gets converted to Game Pass Ultimate 1:1? Or you could simply take the game pass ultimate trial for €1 and get the games you're interested in at a nice discount (or does this apply to XBL members as well?).
That's actually exactly what happened, I don't know where you're getting your chess history from!
Is there less room for human interaction in Formula One than in basketball? I would suggest the opposite is true, given the technological R&D, the pit crews, the engineering teams, and the drivers.
But we're comparing mediums, not sports. And my position is not that games are inferior to any other medium merely that, like every other montage medium (e.g. film), it is inferior at every element it does compared to mediums that specialise in those elements including gameplay; that doesn't mean what it makes out of merging those elements can't result in a work of art that is as great as the greatest art in specialised mediums.
I think I've only mentioned chess, and as much as I love Star Craft, if we're talking about how both games play, then I'm gonna go with chess every time; or even warhammer 40k. Now, if we're taking into account other elements in StarCraft such as its aesthetic and narrative combined with its gameplay, then I'll be happy with either experience.
Few games are as tactilely satisfying as reading a book, so I would suggest book gameplay is superior. In terms of interactivity, there's no comparison: the directness of reading and writing offers literally direct interaction between audience and reader; there's no comparison!
I'm not ignoring those facts, that's just not my point! For the record, I'd much rather play The Last of Us than read The Road, for instance!
I got it from 'history of chess' on chess.com. I figured that would be a valid source
Hmmm... I had to relisten the bit in the podcast and must reluctantly acknowledge that was your original point. Must have missed that as I was listening while working. Note to self: only listen while doing things that don't require much of your attention as you used to, namely during driving.
Everyone should listen to Kyle Reese. He's from the future so he knows what he is talking about.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/michael-biehn-terminator-kyle-reese-coronavirus-video/amp/
Yeah great value for sure. I’m not subscribed to Game Pass either because I prefer to get my games on physical formats as well. Also I already have a big enough backlog of games currently so I really shouldn’t add any more to it with Game Pass.
Oh god what has foolz argued now, that gaming sucks? Gaming seems pretty great to me. I'll still choose it over any other medium. I guess I have to listen to this podcast at some point.
FF7 is everything I could have wanted and more. It takes what we loved and expands and expands growing the characters in ways that are so fulfilling. If you loved anyone in FF7 you will fall for them 10x over in this one. It's squares best work in years, decade maybe. Combat is also sublime, maybe it could use a little work in the camera department but this pseudo turn based action game is the evolution we have been seeing since in this series, finally with the right balance. The only problem is that this is just a small piece of the game, environments do get samey. I can't imagine what the future holds for the rest of FF7.
And RE4 leaked... told you guys. Should be good, lots of good people working on it.
Vader, is this the full FFVII game or is it split into parts?
This weekend, GG, Bugs, Archie, and I undressed except for our underwear and partied at my neighbor's house in Animal Crossing. I also made a goat fly, ride a bicycle, blow up several cars and a gas station in Goat Simulator. Good times.
Been watching Maximilian play through the game on Twitch and my god it looks absolutely incredible. Final Fantasy VII is his all time favourite game and holds a very special place for him so it’s been really fun watching him enjoy the game so much. I’m very hyped to play this myself when it hits the other platforms.
Travo, GG, and Bugs watched as I danced around in Stitches house with only my underwear and a mask this weekend. Very briefly logged into Red Dead Redemption 2 online just to get my free gold bars.
Resident Evil 4 Remake wiould look absolutely amazing on the next gen hardware.
Now that is a remake I'll spend full price on. Maybe I'll buy RE2 now that it's under $20.
Finished Pokemon Shield, good game. Now have started Diablo 3 on Switch, but also have been playing Splatoon on Wii and Splatoon on Switch. Thinking about playing Mission Impossible on Playstation 1.