Ravenprose said:Swimming sucks.
God, the controls. It works but why do they do this?
It reminds me of Mario 64's swimming which was fine, then it was utterly messed up in Mario Sunshine. Twilight Princess had good swimming controls, why mess it up?
travo said:Don't give up, Raven! I just entered the sixth dungeon. Vader wasn't kidding about the handholding. "You cannot pass the flames of doom, but feel free to pour water on this frog's open mouth."
If you do not want to game to hold your hand stop reading the signs that are optional, ignore fi whenever you can and don't dowse.
gamingeek said:
God, the controls. It works but why do they do this?
It reminds me of Mario 64's swimming which was fine, then it was utterly messed up in Mario Sunshine. Twilight Princess had good swimming controls, why mess it up?
They need to use WM+ whenever they can. Besides it kinda controls like EO you of all people should take to it like a fish to water.
Dvader said:Swiming sucks.
Anyone love the bow controls when you use the nunchuck. I think with that method it makes the bow aiming feel better cause you dont point at the screen. You kind of move the entire wiimote around and that moves the aim, it feels right cause that is a natural bow motion.
You hold the Wii-Remote pointing up?
Foolz said:Dvader said:Swiming sucks.
Anyone love the bow controls when you use the nunchuck. I think with that method it makes the bow aiming feel better cause you dont point at the screen. You kind of move the entire wiimote around and that moves the aim, it feels right cause that is a natural bow motion.
You hold the Wii-Remote pointing up?
You can hold it however you want.
Riight. So how is this like a bow at all?
Foolz said:Riight. So how is this like a bow at all?
If you hold it like a bow, it kinda feels like a bow.
Iga_Bobovic said:If you hold it like a bow, it kinda feels like a bow.
I need diagrams.
This one is tricky game to compare to the other Zelda's. It's about middle of the road, like TP, for different reasons. The dungeons are lacking that...epicness. They're great, but only two reach true gaming nirvana, the third and fifth one. But what about the overworlds? Should they be included as a part of the dungeon design, like it's one whole dungeons with an outer and inner area? If so, that might change things.
It's certainly a toss up between this and Arkham City for GOTY at the moment. I guess it depends on how this story plays out for me.
Iga_Bobovic said:They need to use WM+ whenever they can. Besides it kinda controls like EO you of all people should take to it like a fish to water.
Bollocks, it's nothing like Endless Ocean.
travo said:It's amazing how much new stuff this game throws at you, even past the 40 hour mark. Yeah, the water dragon's trial DOES suck, but it's completely new, different. Nintendo gets props for variety. The next one near the volcano..OMG! I was just thinking that we needed a stealth mi.. I wont say no more. Can't wait how the third area compares. I'm trying to follow these trials in order, like Vader suggested and it's glitch/bug free so far.
This one is tricky game to compare to the other Zelda's. It's about middle of the road, like TP, for different reasons. The dungeons are lacking that...epicness. They're great, but only two reach true gaming nirvana, the third and fifth one. But what about the overworlds? Should they be included as a part of the dungeon design, like it's one whole dungeons with an outer and inner area? If so, that might change things.
It's certainly a toss up between this and Arkham City for GOTY at the moment. I guess it depends on how this story plays out for me.
Barely any decent story in this game. Lack of backstory, exposition, characterisation. It's probably the weakest 3D zelda story there has ever been.
gamingeek said:Barely any decent story in this game. Lack of backstory, exposition, characterisation. It's probably the weakest 3D zelda story there has ever been.
Twilight Princess was weaker. At least the little ammount of story that was there made sense, Twilight Princess not so much.
The best story is easily Windwaker when it comes to 3D Zelda's.
Iga_Bobovic said:Twilight Princess was weaker. At least the little ammount of story that was there made sense, Twilight Princess not so much.
The best story is easily Windwaker when it comes to 3D Zelda's.
Twilight Princess made perfect sense to me. Maybe there were logic holes, but there was the best effort in story telling as far as the series goes. I find Skyward sword to have the story of a mario game, princess is kidnapped, go get her.
travo said:You finished it, yet?
I'm on the last boss. I have no energy to beat it at the moment.
gamingeek said:Iga_Bobovic said:Twilight Princess was weaker. At least the little ammount of story that was there made sense, Twilight Princess not so much.
The best story is easily Windwaker when it comes to 3D Zelda's.
Twilight Princess made perfect sense to me. Maybe there were logic holes, but there was the best effort in story telling as far as the series goes. I find Skyward sword to have the story of a mario game, princess is kidnapped, go get her.
TP had no characters at all besides Midna and to a lesser extent Zant. Zelda? Don't know anything about here. Link? Who is that? Midna's sidekick right?! Ganondorf awesome but his motivations if you have not played Windwaker and Ocarina are non existent.
The kids from Ordon. Never did they explain why they were kidnapped. How Zelda got captured by Ganondorf? Heck who knows?! She gave her life to save Midna, now she is captured, don't ask.
Link had hardly any motivation, you were bossed around by Midna the whole time. Midna was the main character and Link was her sidekick.
In Skyward Sword the motivations of Link is clear. The motivations of Zelda is clear and even the motivation of Ghirahim is clear. The story is not as 'epic' as the story is TP, but it is more personal. And Groose and Item check girl Peatrice is better than whatever NPC you find in TP.
Windwaker had by far the best story. Link just wanted to save his sister that was kidnapped. Why she was kidnapped is explained! Ganondorf's motivations were explained and you can almost sympathize with him. Even the reason why the world is what it is, is explained.
P.S. all the Zelda stories have a single message. The gods are dicks.
Iga_Bobovic said:travo said:Don't give up, Raven! I just entered the sixth dungeon. Vader wasn't kidding about the handholding. "You cannot pass the flames of doom, but feel free to pour water on this frog's open mouth."If you do not want to game to hold your hand stop reading the signs that are optional, ignore fi whenever you can and don't dowse.
gamingeek said:
God, the controls. It works but why do they do this?
It reminds me of Mario 64's swimming which was fine, then it was utterly messed up in Mario Sunshine. Twilight Princess had good swimming controls, why mess it up?
They need to use WM+ whenever they can. Besides it kinda controls like EO you of all people should take to it like a fish to water.
yes let's totally ignore objects in the game world cAuse the might have a solution. Shut up, it's horrible, Nintendo thinks we are retarded.
Dvader said:
yes let's totally ignore objects in the game world cAuse the might have a solution. Shut up, it's horrible, Nintendo thinks we are retarded.
Seriously complaining about hints that are optional?! If you can solve the puzzle without reading the hint tablet then do it, I don't see the problem at all. Of course Fi spoiling some puzzles is retarded, but that was only two or three puzzles in the whole game. Most of the time she just states the obvious and slows shit down. A horrible character, but the handholding criticism is a bit overstated.
Dvader said:I know it's not a big complaint but it is there. Was it a hint tablet or a sign, I thought it was just a regular sign at that spot. How am I supposed to ignore it. And they never explain hint tablets, they look like things you should read.
I read the first one in the first dungeon to see what they were about. It gave a hint how to solve a puzzle, so I knew right then and there what it was and avoided most of them afterwards. Of course one puzzle in dungeon 4 required the info of the tablet to solve the puzzle. This is bad game design.
All the tablets look exactly the same, so that is how you are supposed to recognize one.
It is funny that you complain that the game has too much hand holding, but then complain that the hint tablets are not explained. Would explaining basic stuff like reading a tablet fall under handholding?
I need something to take my mind off things so I will reply to vaders huge post of criticism. It's really too long to reply to on any normal occasion.
Dvader said:
I am going to list everything I found bad about Skyward Sword. There is a lot more positive, again one of the best games this year, this gen, etc. It is still Zelda goodness. Its still the best mix of action adventure and puzzle elements of any game. Its a fantastic game. That said, now to nitpick it to death.
SPOILERS don't read this if you haven't played it, I talk about everything.
- Slowest text scroll ever. Other Zelda games text can move quickly, not this one. You will read this bitch! But thats not the worst part, its the damn repetitiion of text for every single item or store, its ridiculous. Oh and how the game stops to show you every damn treasure or bug after you restart the game, why, how does this happen, who programs this shit?!
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I would prefer faster text but it seems pretty similar to me, to past games. Unless it's for text you have already read, in past games you could hold down B to make it go faster. It is very annoying when they reshow you the bugs and treasures.
Dvader said:
- The game treats you like an incompetent idiot. I know Nintendo games want to make sure everyone can play their games but this is kind of overboard. There is already a built in help guide with the stones but Fi still interrupts you every second you need to do something. Then you have dowsing which will literally take you to where you need to go and the option to ask Fi for advise. Also everything you need to know is highlighted red to make sure even the stupidest person doesn't miss what they need to focus on. So much for figuring out a puzzle or quest on your own.
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I don't really feel this problem. I ignore the help stones, they are optional. Fi's advice or hints are all optional. Fi interupts you yeah, but Navi and Midna interupted you too, it's just that stupid "Nothing else to report" nonsense that gets me. I like dowsing and it is optional. Highlighting text has been in most 3D zeldas that I remember.
Dvader said:
I am going to list everything I found bad about Skyward Sword. There is a lot more positive, again one of the best games this year, this gen, etc. It is still Zelda goodness. Its still the best mix of action
- The sky is a complete waste of potential and this is probably the single worse aspect of SS. Its empty, it's practically pointless. Compare it to WW which has a majestic overworld with so much to find and explore, this is so sad. We could have had a huge sky with tons of islands with things to find and explore. Or we could have had some form of bird combat, or arrow shooting from the bird anything to make flying interesting. Plus there is no fast travel so you have to fly everywhere, all the time, just fly fly fly fly across empty space.
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I don't think the sky is a complete waste of space. I actually enjoyed what there was of it, but yeah it could use more stuff, more floating islands, definetely. I don't mind about fast travel, I found flying much more fun than sailing in the Wind Waker. Lack of overworld didn't bother me, but like you say I would rather discover new areas rather than repeat the same 3 locations - even though to be fair they do change it up a lot and make it worthwhile.
Dvader said:
- Quite possibly the best combat in all of Zelda but with the worst selection of enemies. Hey we finally have an awesome sword combat system lets remove the MAJOR enemy that sword fights you. Where are the Darknuts?!?! OMG they are so perfect for this game, who said not to put them in the game? Plus there are only like 10 Stalfos the entire game. Every enemy that would provide a great sword fight is removed or put in limited rotation. So what you get is a bunch of sword fodder.
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I enjoy the fighting in this game. There are a few too many of those goblin things though.
Dvader said:
- Items have almost no use in combat. Remember in TP where you have these bird things that have shields and you have to time your hookshot to take down the shield and then hit it with arrows. Or use the ball and chain to break enemies armor. None of that here. Certain enemies have a weakness to bombs and of course arrows but those are basic Zelda combat rules, there is no interesting use for items in combat.
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The whip hooks those birds by their tails and of course you use arrows, bombs and slingshots.
Dvader said:
- Speaking of items is the clawshot totally useless in this game? Its not used in combat. Its never used in any clever ways. There are always clear marked clawshot points with no real puzzles or even obstacle courses for it. TP had an entire dungeon designed around the clawshot, enemies made use of it and it was incorporated in puzzles like one that had me stumped for quite a while in dungeon 7.
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I think the clawshot use in SS is second only to TP. If they had done another clawshot dungeon, people would have complained.
Dvader said:
- Puzzles are very simple. I was waiting for something, anything to really test me. To make me think for more than a minute. Did not happen. Either I am really good at Zelda puzzles or they didn't try hard enough, I know its definetly the latter. Almost all the puzzles are simple straight forward use this to make this happen. It never goes the extra step to where if you use an item something happens which causes something else to happen and then you need to figure out how to make both reactions work till you get the solution. I am not expecting Portal level puzzles here but I miss the puzzles of previous Zelda games where I would get stumped every once and a while.
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I was stumped for a while on a couple of things, but honestly the puzzles are par for the course as far as WW, TP and SS are concerned. Just right to me. There's nothing worse than being needlessly stuck on some obtuse, unworkable puzzle IMO.
Dvader said:
- Repeating bosses. I hate the Imprisoned, I really hate it. I never want to fight it again. Everything else was fine but the Imprisoned was just too much.
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It's just one boss. I think the third time, if you went back to the sacred grounds too soon it was almost like you had fight him consecutively. I put that off and found a neat way to stop him in his tracks and used a potion to help too.
Dvader said:
- Side quests kind of suck. Again since this game makes sure to tell you where everything is side quests feel like fetch quests. They almost all involve simply getting item for someone and bringing it back to them. Then the game will give you a million obvious clues as to where this item is. Whatever happened to a character that would simply not react to your actions until you find a certain item that will get him to react, it was a puzzle in itself to figure out how do I help this character out. Here its all just fetch this and that.
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Uh.. I would rather not have non-responsive characters. The side quests here aren't great, but the game seems to integrate all the gameplay very well, almost too well. I want that feeling of discovering more stuff to do by myself.
Dvader said:
- The economy is a mess and I don't just mean rupees. The bugs and treasures you get seem rare at first but after 25 hours I had everything upgrade and so many of these treasures I would never have to look for them again. But the game puts them in everything, chests, mini game prizes, enemy drops. When I have no use for all these things it really makes getting them as prizes pointless. Oh then there are the rupees, maybe I missed something but I think you get a wallet that holds 5000 rupees and there is not a single item in the world that even comes close to costing that much, then why give me a wallet that big?!??!!?!?
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Speak for yourself, I have 400 rupees in the bank after 43 hours, still have more stuff to buy or upgrade.
Dvader said:
- Girahim is the worst Zelda bad guy ever. Just boring, crappy, annoying with no character arch at all. So many complain about seeing too much Ganon, well shut it, he is a million times better than the stuff Nintendo comes up with now. It wasn't until he showed up at the end that Link finally had a good villain in this game.
Yeah until the end Ghiram sucks monkey ass. Worst character model ever? An anime styled, fop haired, grey skinned idiot? The story is meh, IMO this game is like a Mario game, barely any story, just motivation annnnnnnnnd Goooooo.
Dvader said:
- The light cube and treasure chest system, terrible. Lets make the sky even more pointless, I just loved finding an island and finding out that it has a chest I can't open yet, yay! So instead of the process of finally getting an item that will allow you to reach that chest you so wanted, now you have to wait till you find some cube down in the world and then the game will tell you exactly where this cube is ruining the whole feeling of exploring for it. Here is how this should have worked, you hit a cube on the ground then one of those many totally useless rocks floating around in the sky transforms into a brand new island with areas and puzzles to solve.
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I liked the cubes, once I worked out how they worked I just did a lot of them then went up and collected them all in one go. Something feels good about whacking a giant silver cube with a skyward strike.
Dvader said:
- This is a positive at first, a random BOMBABLE WALL! OMG!!!! YES YES! Oh its only done once the entire game. Fuck you. They set it up and everything, oh there is a wall that is bombable, search for wind. I thought the rest of the dungeon would have random walls you need to find to bomb like Zelda games of old, nope. Again the game tells you exactly what to do.
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Yeah I prefer bombable walls to be seen, not hidden as some sort of easter egg.
Agree with you on the swimming controls. To be fair they work decently but it just feels sooo wrong.
Annoying fetch quest is done. I just set foot in the 4th dungeon. Time for lunch first, though.