Forum > Gaming Discussion > Replaying the Legacy of Kain series.
Replaying the Legacy of Kain series.
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Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:25:02

Dvader said:

Agnates said:
Soul Reaver was pretty sweet and run in silky smooth 60 fps on Dreamcast. The PS version was really good too though, 30 fps but mostly the same. And yeah it had issues but it was at least far more organic and fluid than other (non-Zelda) games of the era like Tomb Raider, and it did have just a few block puzzles too, which was nice. Awesome environments. Not to mention the gameplay was practically a 3D Castlevania done RIGHT Konami eat your heart out sort of thing. The combat felt really nice back then too, I liked using the different weapons in the environment to impale people with. I never got the sequels though, they didn't seem to advance the series in any way. I tried some Kain-focused game on PC (3D, not the original here) but that one sucked ass, it was horrible.

Yup, I totally agree. The Kain game you played was Blood Omen 2, that is the black sheep, the one I don't own.

Holy fucking shit!

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Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:44:13
There needs to be a LoK/Soul Reaver collection released. Seriously.
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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 00:13:59
Replaying Blood Omen has left me wanting a full remake of that game. Can you imagine an Oblivion like world but in Nosgoth. It can have excellent combat as you have all sorts of awesome weapons/spells/artifacts to make the combat very deep. BO had a bunch of enemy types which will translate well into 3D combat. Make the world more alive, make the guile spell more useful, say when you are disgused you can take side quests from villagers and such. The different forms and spells are perfect for a world with tons of secrets to slowly unlock, like Zelda. They can take ideas from Zelda games to make dungeons that are filled with puzzles, with spells like control mind you can come up with some devilsh puzzles. You can add some of the abilities Kain gets in the other games like telekinesis. It can be the adult themed Zelda many have wanted to play.

The first game has by far the most potential to be remade into something spectacular. The world of Nosgoth is so rich with locations and characters, it is a series worth returning too. The story can be reworked from scratch and made better now that there wont be major developer changes.

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:06:40

Hell I'd like a brand new game in the same style as the first one, but with modern technology behind it. Like a Modern day A Link To The Past. Fucking awesome.

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:02:49
I finished Blood Omen last night, took a little over 20 hours. I love how the back of the box says it has over 100 hours of gameplay, LOL. (Soul Reaver is just as bad, it says over 60 hours). The game is too easy by the end, I had over 70 Heart of Darkness' (think Zelda potions) and so many artifacts that I could instant kill every single enemy in the game. I guess its possible to manage your items poorly and be screwed by the end but you really need to be bad at this game for that to happen. The final few bosses are just ok, this game could benefit from better boss patterns and strategies to beat them. I love the giant army scene, that would translate so well into today's games.

I love the few twists and turns the story takes toward the end. The time travel, the death of Vorador and the revelation of the 9th circle member. It wasn't really explained why Mortanius wanted the circle dead, he claims it was for the well being of the world but he seems evil to me. I know in future games it becomes clear that he is one of those creatures from that other race but in this game it makes no mention of it so that was not the intention. He just begs to be killed yet turns into a huge monster and tried to kill you. Whatever.

So my final thoughts on the game is that it still hold up as one of the best top down action/adventure games of the time. It's a bit unbalanced in terms of difficulty and the amount of items and abilities you get as you don't have threats big enough to use them all. There can be segments in the game where it seems like it goes on for too long, things get a bit repetitive. Dungeons usually have the same obstacles and switches, nothing like a Zelda game in that regard. Its a game that could use some work but the world, story, characters and experience is a very special one that wish more would play.
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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:31:32
http://c.thewarezscene.org/i/903386/Legacy+of+Kain%3A+Soul+Reaver+download+cover.jpg

Next up is my favorite game in the series, Soul Reaver. Little history for you guys, Silicon Knights had some dispute with CD and they lost Kain to CD. Who knows what the series would have been like if SK had continued it. I can't complain cause the game we got to me is a classic. This game was directed by Amy Henning, all of you know her now as the Uncharted director.

Lets go back to 1999, Zelda OoT had just come out and changed 3D action/adventure games forever. I did not have a N64 at the time and I desperately wanted to play Zelda or any 3D game with a large world. If you lived through it you know how incredible every new 3D gameplay experience was at that time, it was all cutting edge. So when I saw this game it was my replacement for not being able to play Zelda, a full 3D action/adventure game on the PS1. It was the experience I dreamed of, I really feel this is one of those important bricks in the foundation of 3D action/adventure games.

http://gogaminggiant.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/soul3.jpg

At first I was a bit confused as to why Kain is not the main character, it was kind of odd to turn him into the bad guy role (I know he was a bad guy I mean have him on the sidelines). This game felt like it tried to distance itself from Blood Omen, I was saddened by the lack of almost anything from that game. Even though the world was Nosgoth it was almost unrecognizable save for a few landmarks. It had a whole new cast and for some reason there was a blob thing in the center of the earth that spoke like Mortanius. As a big fan of that story this game felt as if it almost ignored it. In the end I looked at Soul Reaver as its own game, they were so different that I couldn't see much of the connection outside of Kain.

http://www.ps3informer.com/playstation-3/images/soulreaver.jpg

I need to mention the intro cause I believe its one of the best of that era. The music of that intro is to me the most recognizable piece of music in the whole series and I consider it the theme song of LoK. The music was composed by the lead singer of Information Society, the group that made the 80s hit "What's on your Mind (Pure Energy)". Such a great song, no wonder the soundtrack of SR is awesome.


I have not played SR in years and years. I have memories of loving the game, now its time to see if the game holds up.

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:47:08


Blood Omen= A Link To The Past.

Soul Reaver= Ocarina Of Time.

Legacy Of Zelda.

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:53:58
I started playing last night and I enjoyed what I played. Yeah the graphics were funky. Yeah the camera was a tad bit annoying. Yeah there is pop-up all over. So what, it still feels great. The controls work well, Raziel is very quick with his movements. The lock on works very well as it should as there are rarely many enemies on screen at once. I loved how the combat added a twist in that you had to finish the vampires. This game had some great environmental interation for its time, you can impale the vampires, put them into fire, or into sunlight. The mechanic is simple but at least it makes it a little bit more than just a hack and slash. Plus you can approach stealthy and do instant kill on enemies. With todays enhancements these gameplay elements can be fleshed out even more, for its time though it was impressive.

SR was one of the first games to have streaming loading, meaning no load screens. Of course that also means it has long hallways of nothing so that it may load the trick works though as the world feels seamless. The world is constructed in a way where you kind of follow a path which is connected by ruins and passageways. You never feel like you enter an open field or anything of the sort. Yet it still feels like you can explore cause there are many branching paths that lead to completely different areas of the world which are only accessible by new abilities. In the first area I found a few walls that could not be climbed yet no doubt hiding a health upgrade, ah the classic Zelda/Metroid mechanic that I love. Sadly the game world is kind of empty though. They were probably pushing the limits of the hardware, they couldn't populate the world or give it more detail. I just wish there was more to do, in terms of secrets there are only 15 health upgrades to find and a few magic ones as well.

The reason why I love this game so much is its mix of puzzles and action. The real time dimension switching adds so much puzzle potential. I did one early on where you need to jump on a platform which lowers due to your weight, to keep it there you have to phase into the spirit world so that gravity stops it from raising back up. Then there are the block puzzles, I remember these. Way too many of them and they were slow, I am glad that mechanic seems to be a dying breed. Back then it was all the rage though, I can live with it as every once in a while it makes for a good puzzle.

I am loving it so far. I am trying to look at this from a past point of view, remembering how awe inspiring a 3D world like this one was back in the day.
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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:54:52

edgecrusher said:


Blood Omen= A Link To The Past.

Soul Reaver= Ocarina Of Time.

Legacy Of Zelda.

It should be obvious why I like this series. (and why I am very disappointed in the last few games)

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:18:25
+1
Here is an old gaf thread where Denis Dyack completely destroys EvilTaru about BO: LOK. Dyack says he would have never taken the series in the same direction CD did. I wonder if he means gameplay or story, maybe both. That said I wonder if the SK sequel would have been as good as SR was.
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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:34:25
Why, why did they ban Denis?  He was brilliant.


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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:46:31

aspro said:
Why, why did they ban Denis?  He was brilliant.

Emphasis on 'was' 

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:46:53
Play it on Dreamcast for a tad better graphics. Sharper, less polygon distortions, 60fps. Not much else, a PS port.

YouTube is 30fps at best, sadly...
Edited: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:49:54
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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:19:11

Agnates said:
Play it on Dreamcast for a tad better graphics. Sharper, less polygon distortions, 60fps. Not much else, a PS port.

YouTube is 30fps at best, sadly...

No DC version for me. How did they work in the camera controls, the d-pad?

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Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:19:34

aspro said:
Why, why did they ban Denis?  He was brilliant.

He was/is an ass.

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Fri, 20 Aug 2010 02:25:00

Dvader said:

Agnates said:
Play it on Dreamcast for a tad better graphics. Sharper, less polygon distortions, 60fps. Not much else, a PS port.

YouTube is 30fps at best, sadly...

No DC version for me. How did they work in the camera controls, the d-pad?

Probably the only thing I didn't like about the Dreamcast.....the missing 2nd analog stick on the controller. They really dropped the ball there.

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Fri, 20 Aug 2010 02:29:10

Soul Reaver 2 played much like the core of SR1...but the problem there was SR2 is basically just the missing ending from SR1! LOL, No Boss fights, a much shorter game. All it did was tie up the loose ends. Its too bad they didn't flesh it out more into a TRUE sequel. Then we would have had 3 incredible games in the series, instead of 2 then a bunch of filler games. After SR1 its like they didn't care enough to put full effort into the series anymore.

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Fri, 20 Aug 2010 02:44:00

edgecrusher said:

Probably the only thing I didn't like about the Dreamcast.....the missing 2nd analog stick on the controller. They really dropped the ball there.

FPS on it worked okay though, triggers to shoot/jump, face buttons to move (like PC WASD) and the look on the stick. In fact, regardless of any other drawbacks, I think Quake 3 on the DC is one FPS that got the sensitivity on the stick exactly right to make turning and aiming a joy at the time. But yeah in Soul Reaver is was probably either d-pad or you had to hold a button to control the camera instead of the character, but the automatic camera mostly did a good job and you just adjusted it before making some tricky jump or whatever.

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Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:57:47
Man this game is still awesome. I killed the first two brothers and explored around the world a bit. I forgot how large this game world is, there are secret paths all over the place. I love how some just give you a simple health upgrade but some paths take you to a whole new area. After I got the climb wall ability I found the path to the best optional area in the game, Nupraptor's Keep. The first time I found that years ago I was so happy, to see a classic location from BO in 3D was such a big deal. Inside there is some cool platforming you must do and then you need to do a mega block puzzle to get the freeze spell, my first spell. I think most of the spells in the game are totally optional. It makes hunting for secrets all the more exciting. Last place I found was the human city and those are the only two major optional areas I remember.

The main game is great as well. There are some good puzzles especially in the cathedral. I love the flow of the game, its very puzzle/obstacle oriented with enough enemies and sprinkled around to keep you active. The two bosses I fought are more like puzzles than bosses but at least they are there, and they look cool. I absolutely love games like this, sadly so few like it get made.

I still can't believe the series went in a different direction after this game. The formula works so well and there is some really good game design in here. To see what they did with such limited hardware is so impressive, what the hell happened when they got to the PS2. It baffles me.
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Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:08:32


Man I'd love to replay these games too. I actually have the Dreamcast version (got it dirt cheap off Ebay when I was going through my collecting phase) but never played much of it, so maybe I'll play through that one...one of these days.

You're right though, this was such an awesome series full of so much potential, that I can't believe they messed it all up! This should be one of the best adventure franchises out there right now...its fucking Zelda with a dark, morbid, brilliantly told story. What's not to love?

On consoles back in the late 90's, this could almost be considered the top western franchise in many ways. And you're right about Soul Reaver being one of those defining 3D games; this was one of the games that felt like it was pushing 3D forward from the early Tomb Raider games and others, and taking that next step. And in many ways like pacing and most definitely storytelling the game still holds up and it actually BETTER than much of modern gaming.

Really, we don't get many games of this kind anymore...in this age of all-out action all the time. Its a shame because for the most part, I'm more of a Soul Reaver, Eternal Darkness, Tomb Raider kinda guy.

You know a game is great when you think back to a certain period and its one of the games that comes rushing back into your mind. This is one of those late 90's classics for sure.

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