Forum > Gaming Discussion > 3D Gaming is a Shitty Idea
3D Gaming is a Shitty Idea
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Wed, 19 May 2010 02:07:25
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If you are a VG Press regular, can you please go on the record so we can come back in a couple of years and say "I told you so", one way or the other?

I think 3D gaming is a shitty idea.  At best it will be like the 19th century stereo scopes, or like the Viewmasters from the 70's and 80's.  This is not about emulating reality, it's about selling TV's goggles and consoles.  It's a shit idea that will waste valuable creative efforts (like the SEGA CD did).

So please, man-up and go on the record, for or against 3D gaming. (And this is not about supporting the 3DS or not, I will get one at launch, but not for the 3D).

Edited: Wed, 19 May 2010 02:16:29

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Wed, 19 May 2010 02:13:16
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aspro said:

I think 3D gaming is a shitty idea.

Agreed. Though it sounds like Nintendo will be doing the right thing by making it optional on 3DS.

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:11:11
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Eh, goggles and shit no thank you, but I see no reason not to incorporate it on every single display device out there from now on (especially if goggle-less 3D is about as good, idk), for consoles, portables, or not. It's always merely an option anyway, just a little rendering effect that for some people it's better, and others it leaves unaffected since it's an option. I see no reason to be against it and I dunno if I'm all "for" it until I experience it either.
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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:15:45
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Not having seen anything other than 3d books, I can't say. 3D books can be alright, but in most contexts are definitely not a good idea.

This is kinda cool, but doesn't really have that much practical use.

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:19:24
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I used to pour over 3D books when I was young.

I bought a Virtual Boy...

...and liked it!

I got an erection during Avatar...

...and dragged my 10-year old nephew to go see How to Train Your Dragon in 3D.

Guess what my answer is!
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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:24:11
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When y'all talking about 3d books, are you talking about pop-up books?

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:26:05
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Heh!

No, no, no, no...

I actually used to get Blue-and-Red-Glasses-full-fledged-3D-Picture BOOKS!
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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:29:35
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Yodariquo said:
the day gaming goes 3D is the day I quit gaming.

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:35:59
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Agnates said:
Eh, goggles and shit no thank you, but I see no reason not to incorporate it on every single display device out there from now on (especially if goggle-less 3D is about as good, idk), for consoles, portables, or not. It's always merely an option anyway, just a little rendering effect that for some people it's better, and others it leaves unaffected since it's an option. I see no reason to be against it and I dunno if I'm all "for" it until I experience it either.

 See the thing about the opinion that, "I don't mind I can always turn it off" is like the "I don't care if they include an online mode, I never use it".  I am a campaign mode kind of guy, but as we watch the campaign modes drift toward 6-7 hours we see more and more development time invested in online modes.  I'd love to see a world where a game is retailed at $10 less and if you want the online mode you pay $10 more, but that will never happen.  

As it stands, I've bought H3 and many other games and not used the online mode, where probably more than half of the development cost was sinked into the online capabilities I'll never use.

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:37:58

phantom_leo said:
I used to pour over 3D books when I was young.

I bought a Virtual Boy...

...and liked it!

I got an erection during Avatar...

...and dragged my 10-year old nephew to go see How to Train Your Dragon in 3D.

Guess what my answer is!

Exactly. It can be good for some illustrations, but there's not really anywhere else for it to go.

3D books are obsolete. Nyaa

This thread should be about them, actually. Sad

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:44:26

aspro said:

Agnates said:
Eh, goggles and shit no thank you, but I see no reason not to incorporate it on every single display device out there from now on (especially if goggle-less 3D is about as good, idk), for consoles, portables, or not. It's always merely an option anyway, just a little rendering effect that for some people it's better, and others it leaves unaffected since it's an option. I see no reason to be against it and I dunno if I'm all "for" it until I experience it either.

See the thing about the opinion that, "I don't mind I can always turn it off" is like the "I don't care if they include an online mode, I never use it".  I am a campaign mode kind of guy, but as we watch the campaign modes drift toward 6-7 hours we see more and more development time invested in online modes.  I'd love to see a world where a game is retailed at $10 less and if you want the online mode you pay $10 more, but that will never happen.  

As it stands, I've bought H3 and many other games and not used the online mode, where probably more than half of the development cost was sinked into the online capabilities I'll never use.

The comparison is silly at best. It's just a rendering effect. It doesn't affect gameplay or resources spent or anything else. Not in its current form. As long as it's just a rendering effect it doesn't affect development in any meaningful way and as long as it's just a rendering effect it will be an option. If a new 3D tech appears down the line that actually requires a change in development and what not, that's an entirely different matter.

Also, there are plenty games that focus on single player as well, perhaps you aren't looking in the right places. FPS or whatever's hot these days was rarely longer than 8 hours so such Hollywood-esque titles haven't really changed. The games that had expansive campaigns of many hours were always RPG games and such for the most part, which still offer the same things (and MMOs haven't replaced them, they're a different market). Strategy games as well. I don't see much of a change in how these genres are handled. There's probably also the issue of being younger and finding things harder at the time, ie taking 20+ hours to finish Resident Evil when it's actually rather short or whatever else. Anyway, vote with your money. I'd say don't buy games whose primary focus is MP if all you want is SP, otherwise you send the wrong message.

Edited: Wed, 19 May 2010 03:56:47
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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:46:16

^Okay fair enough.  If it is just a matter of the core developers handing the game off to the 3D rendering dudes, than that is okay.

But will they diminish the graphics for 3D knowing that most people would be prone to enable it?

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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:51:14
Considering they plan to add 3D to existing games (Killzone 2 I think? Wipeout for sure) I'd say again no, not in any meaningful way. But it's not like 3D will suddenly become standard for the PS360 or anything, it will be the afterthought and another bullet point to keep up with the race for this gen's systems at most. Of course future systems (consoles, portables, pc hardware) are bound to be made with 3D abilities in mind as well, so as to have the visual quality rhey want, with 3D on top. Even if the 3DS or other portable 3D games end up making compromises compared to non-3D games for them (if such exist at all) then I'd guess if it wasn't for 3D the system would have been made weaker in the first place to cut costs so you'd still not see better graphics than you get with the 3D option. In any case all this is hypothetical, and stretching it. It's a rendering effect I've yet to experience, I'm not saying I'm "for" it but I'm not against it either consider that as far as I can see it won't affect me in a meaningful way even if I loathe how it looks.
Edited: Wed, 19 May 2010 03:58:30
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Wed, 19 May 2010 03:59:01
^Well, Aggie, the 3DS is probably out this year (November), so go on the record.  Good or bad?

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Wed, 19 May 2010 04:02:58
Not bad in any way. That's all I'm gonna say without having experienced 3D at all. If it's good for me personally remains to be seen, how the heck can I know if the effect gives me a headache or not, or if I find the effect, well, actually effective? I still won't find it bad in either case.
Edited: Wed, 19 May 2010 04:05:29
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Wed, 19 May 2010 04:11:48
3D is not an on-off switch.  You can do renderings in both, but it's not just a filter.  Parallax 3D is not an equivalent to polarized lenses, and if there's no difference in resources for including 3D, that's some major half-assing right there.

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Wed, 19 May 2010 04:17:03
It more or less is an on/off switch. They either tell the engine to render in this, or that mode, much like they tell it to render in widescreen or 4:3 or whatever, which does alter certain things. Obviously it will take some work to get the 3D to look right, maybe even alter the FOV or other minor elements for a more convincing effect, but that's it, and once it's more commonplace every programmer will be taught and know how to do it blindfolded and it won't add any meaningful extra to the development. There's gonna be no difference in resources used for most, if not all, games, just like the movies are the same, with the same camera angles and everything else, whether seen in 3D or in a regular ol 2D mode. And for the 3DS in particular, considering they stressed it's optional for the user, that's bound to be the case. It's just a visual effect, it won't be able to alter gameplay or anything else.
Edited: Wed, 19 May 2010 04:20:51
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Wed, 19 May 2010 04:20:34
Agnates said:
once it's more commonplace every programmer will be taught and know how to do it blindfolded and it won't add any meaningful extra to the development.
 

Ugh

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Wed, 19 May 2010 04:25:02
Right back @ you. All the middleware is already gearing up to support it out of the box, dev resources online constantly add more or better ways to do it. The more popular it becomes the more it becomes a must for developers to know how it's done, so yes, eventually it will not be the hot new thing that some still wonder how to effectively do, it will be a rudimentary must-have basic option everyone knows how and does add to their products. Much like every other technology that became prelevant before it, from bumps to normal maps and pixel shaders, HDR and whatever else. Once new, now commonplace, or even outdated. That's the way it goes with such things.
Edited: Wed, 19 May 2010 04:32:27
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Wed, 19 May 2010 04:39:04
It's not the same as a texture.

#import 3D

Not. Going. To. Happen.

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