Yodariquo said:

If Scrabble didn't exist, would Words suddenly become a videogame?  Is Baldur's Gate not a videogame since they didn't have to design the rules and it already existed as Dungeons and Dragons?  Isn't Pong just playing "electronic tennis"?

No one played Pong cause it was a realistic simulation of table tennis. You played Pong cause pong had its own rules and feel, it was its own thing, it just resembled table tennis. An expert at pong is an expert of a certain video game, not table tennis. An expert of Scrabble will dominate Words with Friends because they are the exact same game.

Baulder's Gate has a ton of normal traditional video game elements in it that have nothing to do with D&D, doesn't matter what it is based on.

The first question is the tricky one though I would still say Words with friends would fit the mold of a board game much more than a video game. A game where you simply have pieces (and I mean stuff like dice, cards, game piece) that two players interact with set rules is a board game not a video game. Again anything can be qualified as a video game, I am saying its not a video game of the video game industry.

Yodariquo said:

You appear to be using completely arbitrary criteria post-hoc to what you've already decided doesn't count.  Wii Sports tennis, is that close enough?  Or maybe it has to be Virtua Tennis?  Flight Simulators?  Chess games, you said?  How about Battle Chess?  Chess with versions that you can't play on a physical board such as not being able to see your opponents pieces - or does that not count since you could do it on paper?  How about video games that you could simulate on paper if you had the time and effort put in, such as Advance Wars?






Bauldur's Gate isn't "based on" Dungeon's and Dragons, it's an electronic simulation - it literally uses the rulebook of Dungeon's and Dragons.






Words with Friends is not the exact same game as Scrabble; there are differences.






"Pieces that two players interact with set rules" - any versus turn-based strategy game fits this description.

I have already explained the difference between all those games you mentioned and Words with friends.  It seems you read nothing I said. To put it really simply, if it has computer AI controlled elements it can be considered a video game. If it has level design, gameplay design, enemy design, any of the normal elements we enjoy in all our games its a normal video game. If it is LITERALLY nothing but a board game (or a card game) recreation in which you need another human to play, then that is all it is, a board game.

Seriously Baulder's Gate

>

You cant understand how THAT is not like a paper and pencil D&D? You dont understand how THAT is a video game? You seriously cant tell the difference between that and Words With Friends?

Yodariquo said:

You said Pong wasn't enough of a simulation.  Wii Tennis is more of a simulation.  Flight simulators even further.  You didn't specify how accurate a game has to be until it is no longer a game.  Your criteria was simply realism.






And no, you said chess didn't count because it's a board game.  You didn't say what elements that aren't possible on a physical board game are required for it to no longer count.






So chess versus a human isn't a video game, but chess versus a chess engine is?  You seriously can't tell why that's an awful definition of videogame?

No, I said Pong was clearly a video game, it had its own set of video game rules and mechanics.

No one played Pong cause it was a realistic simulation of table tennis. You played Pong cause pong had its own rules and feel, it was its own thing, it just resembled table tennis. An expert at pong is an expert of a certain video game, not table tennis

It has nothing to do with realism, is there an aspect where the computer is engaging the player back is the important thing. I believe that is a requirement to be considered the kind of video game we play.

Chess vs a human is not a video game, why would it be? If I am playing chess against a computer AI I am actively playing a game against a computer, that is now entering video game territory.(Now I know you will argue some giant computer chess AI machine thats sole purpose is to play humans, no that is not really a video game cause they are not sold to the public as a game to play, but slap that program into a game and sell it then yes its a video game). A chess game whos purpose is to provide the player a full game to enjoy with people or not is a video game.

Chessmaster delievers the game of chess but in a video game like way, with multiple options, AI difficulty levels,it has all sorts of video game elements that turn it into something more than simply a virtual recreation of the board and pieces. That is the key, it is not an exact virtual recreation of a board game that exists in real life. I can't pull out a chess board and expect it to play against me, that doesn't exist in real life, so if a game provides that element its now a video game.

Enough of me explaining, I want you to explain to me where is the video game aspect of "words with friends". Again understanding that I am not talking about the literal definition of it being a game on a video screen, I am talking about the gaming we play. What about Words with friends makes it a video game? Is it the part where my finger drags the piece to its spot cause then every app on my phone is a video game. Is it the part where it automatically calculates the score? Cause then my calculator is a video game. Is it that it allows me to connect to my friends online? Cause then Skype is a video game. Please answer the question cause I can't find one element of words with friends that makes it a video game.

Yodariquo said:

You have been repeatedly shifting goalposts.  Words with Friends is not an exact virtual recreation of Scrabble, it is merely very similar.  By this definition it is a videogame.  If it's AI, then multiplayer-only games that you declare as obviously videogames don't qualify.  If it's physical recreation, then a lot of turn-based games fall in here too.  If you have to pick and choose based on what you want the outcome to be, then your definition isn't useful.

Thats a robot, the actual chess board does not play against you.

Yes its nice an convinent that these virtual versions of the game make it to streamline the game so anything illegal doesn't work. That still doesn't mean it has any element that makes it a standard video game.

Again you keep going back to the literal sense, yes it is a game and yes it is a video format, I dont care about that. Yes in a literal sense anything that is a game and in video form is a video game. So to you Scene It the board game is a video game?

I am using the AI example cause in this case that is the key component that is missing. If words with friends had actual gameplay like say you had to tap the letters as they flew around the screen for a score multiplier, tada now its a video game! Just making it so that it streamlines the real life rules does not mean its doing anything video game like, its just a better more efficient computer simulation. It is a literal virtual version of the board game. Please give me any example where it is not.

Stuff like Battlefield, TF2 have level design, have gameplay mechanics. I interact with a character, I shoot things on a screen, I run around a fake created virtual world that is specifically designed to play a video game.

Solitare is not a video game. Online poker where all you are doing is playing against other humans for actual money are simply gambling sites, not a video game. A simple virtual recreation of any board game that has basically no real computer interaction is not a video game. And again I mean video game as in the kinds of games we play.

Ok, a video game, and again I mean the video games we play, of couse has to have some sort of interaction between the player and game, that is probably where you and many others stop. I think a game must have some level of design and gameplay mechanics of some kind that go beyond something like a random dice roll.

Molyneux almost posted this.

Yodariquo said:

Therefore sports games aren't videogames because they don't have levels.

Sports games have all sorts of computer AI systems taking place. Also the game itself is not a real recreation of say football because football is a physical sport with actually throwing a ball so when the little virtual people are throwing the ball it has to do with game mechanics like how long you press the button, not some written rule. Your RB moves are entirely dependent on the players reactions, you have buttons that have functions like speed burst, spin move. It has all sorts of modes, training game mini games, stats to keep track of. There are a million things that make sports games a video game, it tries to be a simulation but obviously it is not as it is impossible to simulate a physical sport.

There is nothing words with friends does that makes it any different than having the physical board in front of two players, no actual game system in place. No thought to actual design, unless of course you mean the design of "scrabble" or whatever that game is, but that is a board game. That is a board game online, nothing else to it. I cannot and will not accept that as a video game. It is no different than me being on the phone with another player each of us with our own board playing the game.

SteelAttack said:

This thread has provided me a scary peek at dvader's inner mind workings.

It was more frightening than the catacombs in Dark Souls.

Dvader said:

Yodariquo said:

Therefore sports games aren't videogames because they don't have levels.

Sports games have all sorts of computer AI systems taking place.

No moving goalposts.

Dvader said:

a game must have some level of design and gameplay mechanics of some kind that go beyond something like a random dice roll.

Level design is a requirement by your definition.  Either acknowledge your definition is wrong, or that sports games aren't videogames by your definition.

Yodariquo said:

You have been repeatedly shifting goalposts.  

That's pretty much always happens when debating Vader!

Hey. What's this topic about again? Oh... that's right:

DRAGON'S CROWN

Which happens to be getting some incredibly positive preview buzz lately...