You seem to think men are not judged on the basis of their physical appearance in the same way women are. I disagree entirely.  Short people, unattractive people, overweight people of both genders are equally disdvantaged in our societies.

aspro said:

You seem to think men are not judged on the basis of their physical appearance in the same way women are. I disagree entirely.  Short people, unattractive people, overweight people of both genders are equally disdvantaged in our societies.

I really don't appreciate strawmanning me by cropping out the context that changes it to a flat blanket statement instead of a qualified one saying that appearance matters on both sides.  The scope is absolutely not the same though and I don't know you could think otherwise.

Errrr... I don't know if this is what you are arguing over or not, but, yes, women are judged more harshly on their appearance than men. Women tend to care A LOT more about their appearance than men do too. The thing is, WOMEN judge other women more than men judge women and women have more problems with SELF-image and put more pressure on themselves to look good...

Don't think for a SECOND though that both sexes don't judge the OPPOSITE sex pretty strongly too...

Men look at asses and boobs...

Women look for broad chests, big shoulders and thin waists... they don't judge packages as much as men judge female traits, but they'll gossip to their friends MORE about what their men have than vice-versa...

Both sexes are practically just as guilty about sexualization, but men are more vocal about it.

...but not this media (games)...

Women don't pay nearly as much attention to games as Television, Print Ads and Movies...

...and if you say "Well MEN do!" and assume they put pressure on women to look a certain way because of it... I don't think that's true. Saying a man wants and expects women to have big boobs because of the way they are portrayed in games is like saying they are more likely to go out and shoot someone because they play Call of Duty.

This is not a good example because it's not at all a random sample, but the majority of women who posted in my GS topic WERE NOT offended by the Sorceress and pretty much stated flat-out she was exaggerated to the point of being SO unrealistic no one should really take HER or the "controvery" so seriously. Really, Schreier was more offended than most WOMEN would be!

phantom_leo said:

Women don't pay nearly as much attention to games as Television, Print Ads and Movies...

There's a lot of jumping around between different causes and effects.  Of course you influence an audience that isn't there.  So if a game is only ever seen or played by men, then negative self-images for women can't exist.  The effect of the portrayal of women in videogames in this scenario is a matter of why don't those women exist?

It's not enough to just say that games are marketed towards men; it's a matter of how games are designed for men.  This also ties into the idea of suggesting that men and women are equally sexualized.  Characters in videogames are almost always designed for men, and that includes both male and female characters.

Take a look at Dragon's Crown.  It's not just skimpy clothing, it's a matter of intent in design.  To answer this, we have to ask two questions about the character: Is this character designed to be sexually appealing, and who is the target audience?

Let's take a look at the Sorceress:

She is clearly designed to be sexually attractive.  Her physique also only has the value of being sexually appealing while having a lot of drawbacks - she's designed to be appealing as a character to men.

Now let's take a look at the scantily clad male dwarf:

From my estimation, he's not designed to be sexually appealing.  He's designed to be appealing again to male audiences.  An avatar to act out a fantasy of being big, strong and powerful - he doesn't look that to have sex appeal for women.

I think everyone has it backwards here... Do you really think WOMEN have any interest in playing a Fantasy-Based, Side-Scrolling, Brawler game? The game is "designed for men" because this is the type of game that primarily MEN are going to play. It's not because they're not giving women the choice to, it's just not the type of game they would normally desire to play. You make the game for the audience. To make a game that will appeal to EVERYONE is next to impossible,

The Sorceress is ONE of SIX playable characters. Is the Elf-Archer supposed to be sexual? How is she supposed to appeal to men in the way you are proposing? If we take your logic and assume women WOULD want to play a game like this, who do you think this character would appeal to more:

Broad shoulders, thin waist...

The Magician is not sexual in any way either. How is he a man's man? The Amazon... I have NO IDEA who she is supposed to appeal to... This is not a game designed for MEN. It's a Fantasy game, full of the Archetypical Fantasy Characters, whose biggest fans happen to be men.

I really can't find too many stories on the subject, but:

"It found that men are drawn to playing games by the element of competition, with more than half saying this is the main appeal, while the majority of women - two thirds - cite stress relief as the reason.

The survey also highlighted the disparity in the types of games played by the two sexes.

Women, it found, are more likely to play games with a social element or that test their brain power, with almost half the women surveyed admitting to be fans of such games compared to just a quarter of men.

So while women download apps, solve problems or exchange bushels of hay on the popular Facebook app Farmville, men, who were found to be far less selective in their gaming habits, are more likely to be shooting up virtual opponents in an online war game (over a third play regularly), or gambling, with one in five admitting to logging on to such sites."

Here's a good one:

"That's because they make up nearly 60% of players on mobile devices and are more likely than men to play mobile games, especially multiplayer games that involve social engagement such as Words With Friends and Draw Something. More than six out of 10, or 63%, of female mobile gamers play social multiplayer games, compared with 52% of men who play mobile games, according to a new survey by EEDAR, a research firm based in Carlsbad, Calif."