aspro said:

Yodariquo said:

Red Steel was a game that was marketed, but was poorly received.  Nobody bought Red Steel 2 because



1) Red Steel was considered crap by most


2) They changed the graphical style to niche appeal


3) It didn't have the momentum of a launch title FPS with the Wiimote

And it required a Motion Plus to play.

Don't forget, Red Steel 2 also missed it's launch date by like 6 months. It originally did have a big marketing push along with Wii Sports Resort. Those two games were supposed to go hand-in-hand to show off Motion Plus. And when it finally did come out... no one really cared anymore. I still think if Red Steel 2 had launched when it was originally meant to it would have done much better (not great mind you, but better) and probably would have helped get MP accepted a bit more.

AlphaOmega on Nintendo working with 3rd parties:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLJVnIzaj94

edgecrusher said:

I resent Tom Brady being in that pic.

And I'm sick of hearing people gloat over Peyton fucking Manning. If Tom Brady had the weapons that Manning has been surrounded with his entire career, Brady would have won like 8 super bowls. The only year he did have weapons like Manning, he went 18 & 1.

Unfortunately, the Patriots ownership are becoming like 80's Red Sox ownership....lets only pay for 2 star players and fill the rest in with low paid bargain bin guys...yeah that will be good enough yeah.

Fuck this, if Manning had the defenses and the coach Brady had he would have won a shit ton more than your golden boy. They are the two best QBs but Peyton is the better of the two.

Iga_Bobovic said:

Dvader said:

Sony lost exclusives when 360 sales were booming, thats buisness, companies go where money is.

That's how it is in theory, but you had a ton of 3rd parties that went bankrupt. So no they don't go where the money is.

Dvader said:

The PS3 was the height of Sony arrogance and it cost them but how fast did they turn the ship around. Within two years they rebranded the console, lowered the price, and started to go after western devs to make sure they have good relationships. The PS4 was a love letter to third party developers, Sony pretty much said we are making this console FOR YOU. Sony saw a problem, fired the head man, fixed the ship extremely fast. Nintendo should probably take a look at that. Sony lost last gen, they sure has hell weren't going to lose this upcoming one and I have seen enough to declare Sony the winner of this next gen.

The Wii U has just been in the market for a little more than a year. If you want fast look at the 3ds, Nintendo went in  Panic mode pretty quickly there.

Dvader said:

LOL stop trying to pretend that Wii U is a last gen system, its a next gen system, its the least powerful one. It will not be competiting with PS3/360 anymore (well it sold so bad that maybe that is all it would actually compete with but a normal system would have been competing with the new ones). It was a new console with no install base asking for old gen ports, third parties knew they wouldnt be making much money. I would say the first year of Wii U got as good third party support as they could have hoped. Two GOTY winners (Batman and Mass Effect), full Ubisoft support, CoD, thats pretty damn good considering the Wii's track record. Sales were abysmal, what are those companies supposed to do?

Wii Us online is a joke when compared to the other two. Nintendo has finally addressed this it seemed so at least they will address one part of their failures.

Good third party support? So you expect people to buy the Wii U, because it has games they have already played a year before? And sometimes sloppy ports at that! Mass Effect? That is your example?! Are you even reading what shit you are writing? Where was Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and all the others? That would be decent 3rd party support. What they got on the Wii U was shit.

Dvader said:

I agree with the last point. It has reached a point where Nintendo is viewed as some strange different entity in this market. I don't know if they could ever be the number one primary console again in most countries. I would like your explaination for this.

Well simple, Nintendo's greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Look at it this way. We have 3 equal consoles. One is from Nintendo. Third parties will always have to compete with their 1st party games. For the other two consoles, you don't have that. Sure they might port over the games if it is easy enough, but it would never be their top priority.

And there is of course a stigma that hardcore games do not sell well on Nintendo's consoles. But that is a chicken and a egg situation!

Oh and the Xbox one was a love letter to 3rd parties not the PS4. But the consumers said fuck no, and they changed it! Consoles are made for the consumers not 3rd parties! on't forget that!

You bring up something about third parties that has nothing to do with the argument, the fact that they went bankrupt as nothing to do with third parties going multiplatform.

Simply cutting the price is not the same as firing upper management and completely changing the focus of your third party relationships. Sony actually changed, Nintendo did a price cut,

Good third party support? So you expect people to buy the Wii U, because it has games they have already played a year before? And sometimes sloppy ports at that! Mass Effect? That is your example?! Are you even reading what shit you are writing? Where was Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and all the others? That would be decent 3rd party support. What they got on the Wii U was shit.

Ding ding ding we have a winner! Thank you Iga there you go, you went straight into the reality of the subject. Almost all Wii and Wii U owners HAVE OTHER SYSTEMS. They do not need to play third party games on Nintendo consoles. I would never buy a Nintendo port of a game unless it is drastically better and well that almost never happens. Why would I when the other consoles get achievements, better online, full support. So what if Tomb Raider and Bioshock would have come out on Wii U, all those people you said already played ME would be buying those games on their 360 or PS3.

Nintendo now makes secondary systems, anyone who is serious about video games does not just buy a Nintendo console. Don't you think third parties know this? The people that do just buy a Nintendo console usually like only certain kinds of games, usually family friendly stuff. So you have consoles that are underpowered to their kin, a userbase where the only interested parties for your game already have another system, a system with such a poor online structure almost no one plays online, a weird controller that needs some type of attention to rework, and you expect third parties to simply stop what they are doing and focus on making the Wii/U version the best version. That is bullshit fantasy. WHY? No one can answer this question WHY WOULD THEY?

Well simple, Nintendo's greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Look at it this way. We have 3 equal consoles. One is from Nintendo. Third parties will always have to compete with their 1st party games. For the other two consoles, you don't have that. Sure they might port over the games if it is easy enough, but it would never be their top priority.

And there is of course a stigma that hardcore games do not sell well on Nintendo's consoles. But that is a chicken and a egg situation!

Oh and the Xbox one was a love letter to 3rd parties not the PS4. But the consumers said fuck no, and they changed it! Consoles are made for the consumers not 3rd parties! on't forget that!

This crap again, the Nintendo is sooo awesome third parties are afraid to compete with them nonsense. 3rd parties have to compete with 1st party games on other consoles just the same and they do fine. Mario sales would have nothing to do with sales of say GTA, there is no relationship there. The problem is that people who do just buy a NIntendo and no other console buy them for Nintendo games, that is why those games sell better than all others. I don't think there is one person on this planet that buys a Nintendo system and dislikes Nintendo games, you buy the Nintendo console for the Nintendo games. That is not the case with the other two, there are loads of people that buy either Xbox or PS to get CoD and Madden, maybe they try a first party game here or there.

Nintendo makes secondary consoles that is what they have to fix in order for "hardcore" games to sell like the others. This whole secondary thing started when they started to become different. NES and SNES were the standards of their eras, thats the kind of model they need to bring back. And you would argue that is not possible anymore, some will argue Nintendo should stay different. Well if you argue that then you have no reason to be upset at the lack of major third party support, they go hand and hand.

Nintendo is just going to have to accept that if they want more consumers they are going have to adapt to more mainstream ideas.  Why do their consoles not even have a DVD drive, much less Blu Ray?  Even after this being the norm to play movies on other consoles for three generations now, Nintendo still doesn't offer this.  Sure, it's costly, but gamers notice this.  They want greater ease, an all in one machine, but if you want that, you'll just have to go to Sony or Microsoft.

edgecrusher said:

I resent Tom Brady being in that pic.

And I'm sick of hearing people gloat over Peyton fucking Manning. If Tom Brady had the weapons that Manning has been surrounded with his entire career, Brady would have won like 8 super bowls. The only year he did have weapons like Manning, he went 18 & 1.

Unfortunately, the Patriots ownership are becoming like 80's Red Sox ownership....lets only pay for 2 star players and fill the rest in with low paid bargain bin guys...yeah that will be good enough yeah.

If it makes you feel any better the Seahawks are going to win tomorrow.

Dvader said:

Fuck this, if Manning had the defenses and the coach Brady had he would have won a shit ton more than your golden boy. They are the two best QBs but Peyton is the better of the two.

Dude, Brady hasn't had a good defense since like 2006....what are you talking about? And yeah Bill B is a great coach, but when you have a QB as good as that it doesn't matter how good your coach is. Patriots defense has been a joke for at least 4 years now. Actually that's why they didn't win the two super bowls against the Giants.

If you could have either Brady or Manning playing in that game tomorrow with the Broncos, I would take Brady any day of the week. And not just because he's on the Patriots.

robio said:

If it makes you feel any better the Seahawks are going to win tomorrow.

Actually that does make me feel better because Manning is an annoying country boy and I'm tired of his stupid face, and even more tired of the media around him.

edgecrusher said:

Dvader said:

Fuck this, if Manning had the defenses and the coach Brady had he would have won a shit ton more than your golden boy. They are the two best QBs but Peyton is the better of the two.

Dude, Brady hasn't had a good defense since like 2006....what are you talking about? And yeah Bill B is a great coach, but when you have a QB as good as that it doesn't matter how good your coach is. Patriots defense has been a joke for at least 4 years now. Actually that's why they didn't win the two super bowls against the Giants.

If you could have either Brady or Manning playing in that game tomorrow with the Broncos, I would take Brady any day of the week. And not just because he's on the Patriots.

I know their defenses havent been as good that is why they havent won super bowls. But everyone holds Brady's rings as the trump card to Manning, teams win championships not players. Remove the rings and Manning is clearly the better QB in almost every single way

I understand Manning's record in the playoffs, yes he seems to be slightly more mistake prone tha n Brady, but since those three SB wins Brady is just .500 in the playoffs and his stats arent that much different than Manning. I hope Manning wins just to shut up the critics that say he is not a great post season player.

So much for that three game exclusive deal. Unless there is some other Sonic game they are yet to announce.

Dvader said:

Remove the rings and Manning is clearly the better QB in almost every single way

I don't see this proof that he is better in every way. Why? Because he yells Omaha? Because he has so much more speed than Brady?

They both have strong accurate arms, they're both pocket passers.