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GDC 2009: Prince of Persia Producer Explains Difficulty
Following low sales, Ben Mattes says they have to find the right balance.
Prince of Persia had good buzz leading to its launch, but the no-fail difficulty from Elika made some feel the game was just too easy. At the Game Developers Conference this week, MTV Multiplayer reports that producer Ben Mattes has explained some of his motivation behind the challenge level, and talked about lessons learned from it.
"I guess I made the mistake of projecting my own attitudes," he said. "I believed that, as a consumer base, the gaming industry had evolved to the point where they were punishing themselves for their failures." He said that they thought being rescued "would be a devastating thing because it ruined your perfect run." No such luck, though, as many felt it removed the challenge from the game and made it too casual-friendly.
After Prince of Persia failed to make a dent in the NPDs following its December release, Mattes is clearly rethinking the strategy for future games. "We can't continue to punish players for not being super leet haxxors," he jokes, "but we have to do enough so that [hardcore gamers] won't sell the game back."
Dont make it too easy or too hard. Haven't we known this for years?
Why not have selectable difficulty levels? Have it casual friendly by default, but give the hardcore the option to increase the difficulty. Games have had this feature for what . . . 30+ years now, yet in this modern age, it seems some devs have forgotten all about it. I really, really hate it when I'm not given a selectable difficulty right from the start, and it pisses me off even more when I have to play through the easier mode just to unlock the hard mode. That's a seriously stupid design philosophy, IMO.
I recentely noticed that HOTD Overkill is ridiculously easy in multiplayer. Play in that mode and the game is barely a distraction and most people dont even try for combos. Especially when the weapons are powered up.
How hard is it to make a harder or easier mode for a game by tweaking the damage enemies take? Or changing your life or ammo or weapons.
Why not have selectable difficulty levels? Have it casual friendly by default, but give the hardcore the option to increase the difficulty. Games have had this feature for what . . . 30+ years now, yet in this modern age, it seems some devs have forgotten all about it. I really, really hate it when I'm not given a selectable difficulty right from the start, and it pisses me off even more when I have to play through the easier mode just to unlock the hard mode. That's a seriously stupid design philosophy, IMO.
Does not work for all genres. Platforming games get their difficulty from the level design. So you would have to redesign the levels. I think Galaxy and all the other 3D Mario's had the right solution.Make it so that everyone can finish it, but only the hardcore can truly complete it.
In terms of highlights coming out of this show, I’d say Nintendo’s Iwata keynote is the one that you’ll really want to watch (Jeremy will be live blogging it tomorrow morning). I thought he was just going to be talking about Motion Plus and DSi, but it turns out he’s going to be announcing quite a few new games — for Wii, Wiiware, and Virtual Console (and this won’t just be Nintendo titles, but also third party stuff). I’ve already heard about a few of them (including one that makes me all giddy…I can’t wait for tomorrow now).
Why not have selectable difficulty levels? Have it casual friendly by default, but give the hardcore the option to increase the difficulty. Games have had this feature for what . . . 30+ years now, yet in this modern age, it seems some devs have forgotten all about it. I really, really hate it when I'm not given a selectable difficulty right from the start, and it pisses me off even more when I have to play through the easier mode just to unlock the hard mode. That's a seriously stupid design philosophy, IMO.
Does not work for all genres. Platforming games get their difficulty from the level design. So you would have to redesign the levels. I think Galaxy and all the other 3D Mario's had the right solution.Make it so that everyone can finish it, but only the hardcore can truly complete it.
It can work for platformers too. Maybe not in level design, but in the amount of enemies in a level, giving them smarter/more aggressive A.I., and in how many hits it takes to kill them. Nintendo could also make Mario take more damage per hit (i.e. one hit = instant death). It can be done.
Why not have selectable difficulty levels? Have it casual friendly by default, but give the hardcore the option to increase the difficulty. Games have had this feature for what . . . 30+ years now, yet in this modern age, it seems some devs have forgotten all about it. I really, really hate it when I'm not given a selectable difficulty right from the start, and it pisses me off even more when I have to play through the easier mode just to unlock the hard mode. That's a seriously stupid design philosophy, IMO.
Does not work for all genres. Platforming games get their difficulty from the level design. So you would have to redesign the levels. I think Galaxy and all the other 3D Mario's had the right solution.Make it so that everyone can finish it, but only the hardcore can truly complete it.
It can work for platformers too. Maybe not in level design, but in the amount of enemies in a level, giving them smarter/more aggressive A.I., and in how many hits it takes to kill them. Nintendo could also make Mario take more damage per hit (i.e. one hit = instant death). It can be done.
Enemies in platformers are largely incidental, except bosses, I guess. They are there to emphasize a particular aspect of a level, not because they are paramount to its design. I would say that level design is what defines difficulty in platformers.
With the recent announcement that Lucasarts are working on Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings for Wii, DS, PS2 and the PSP, many people wondered what had happened with the “next gen” version of Indiana Jones that was highly boasted about a few years back, and if development of that game was happening, albeit quietly, concurrently with Staff of Kings.
However, this seems not to be the case, as Lucasarts have now confirmed they’ve decided to work solely on Staff of Kings, making a “strategic business decision” to end development of the 360/PS3 versions. “We want to bring consumers an Indy experience in 2009 following the successful launch of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull in 2008,” comments a LucasArts spokesperson. “The next-gen skus would not be ready for the 2009 window so we made a strategic business decision to end development on PS3 and Xbox 360.”
The spokesperson goes onto add that fans should not fret, as they will be able to “experience an all new adventure with Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings on Wii, DS, PS2 and the PSP this coming Spring.”
Why not have selectable difficulty levels? Have it casual friendly by default, but give the hardcore the option to increase the difficulty. Games have had this feature for what . . . 30+ years now, yet in this modern age, it seems some devs have forgotten all about it. I really, really hate it when I'm not given a selectable difficulty right from the start, and it pisses me off even more when I have to play through the easier mode just to unlock the hard mode. That's a seriously stupid design philosophy, IMO.
Does not work for all genres. Platforming games get their difficulty from the level design. So you would have to redesign the levels. I think Galaxy and all the other 3D Mario's had the right solution.Make it so that everyone can finish it, but only the hardcore can truly complete it.
It can work for platformers too. Maybe not in level design, but in the amount of enemies in a level, giving them smarter/more aggressive A.I., and in how many hits it takes to kill them. Nintendo could also make Mario take more damage per hit (i.e. one hit = instant death). It can be done.
Enemies in platformers are largely incidental, except bosses, I guess. They are there to emphasize a particular aspect of a level, not because they are paramount to its design. I would say that level design is what defines difficulty in platformers.
Correct and Hamster, do not forget the DareDevil comets!
Enemies in platformers are largely incidental, except bosses, I guess. They are there to emphasize a particular aspect of a level, not because they are paramount to its design. I would say that level design is what defines difficulty in platformers.
I agree that level design defines most ofthe difficulty in platformers, but it isn't the only thing.
Correct and Hamster, do not forget the DareDevil comets!
I remember. Imagine if the entire game was just like that, though. It would've made Galaxy a much harder game. Selectable difficulty options could've made that happen.
Sweet. I forgot about that one. On rails zelda.
WTH is this?
GDC 2009: Prince of Persia Producer Explains Difficulty Following low sales, Ben Mattes says they have to find the right balance.Prince of Persia had good buzz leading to its launch, but the no-fail difficulty from Elika made some feel the game was just too easy. At the Game Developers Conference this week, MTV Multiplayer reports that producer Ben Mattes has explained some of his motivation behind the challenge level, and talked about lessons learned from it.
"I guess I made the mistake of projecting my own attitudes," he said. "I believed that, as a consumer base, the gaming industry had evolved to the point where they were punishing themselves for their failures." He said that they thought being rescued "would be a devastating thing because it ruined your perfect run." No such luck, though, as many felt it removed the challenge from the game and made it too casual-friendly.
After Prince of Persia failed to make a dent in the NPDs following its December release, Mattes is clearly rethinking the strategy for future games. "We can't continue to punish players for not being super leet haxxors," he jokes, "but we have to do enough so that [hardcore gamers] won't sell the game back."
Dont make it too easy or too hard. Haven't we known this for years?
I recentely noticed that HOTD Overkill is ridiculously easy in multiplayer. Play in that mode and the game is barely a distraction and most people dont even try for combos. Especially when the weapons are powered up.
How hard is it to make a harder or easier mode for a game by tweaking the damage enemies take? Or changing your life or ammo or weapons.
Does not work for all genres. Platforming games get their difficulty from the level design. So you would have to redesign the levels. I think Galaxy and all the other 3D Mario's had the right solution.Make it so that everyone can finish it, but only the hardcore can truly complete it.
In terms of highlights coming out of this show, I’d say Nintendo’s Iwata keynote is the one that you’ll really want to watch (Jeremy will be live blogging it tomorrow morning). I thought he was just going to be talking about Motion Plus and DSi, but it turns out he’s going to be announcing quite a few new games — for Wii, Wiiware, and Virtual Console (and this won’t just be Nintendo titles, but also third party stuff). I’ve already heard about a few of them (including one that makes me all giddy…I can’t wait for tomorrow now).
Sam Kennedy’s Full Blog Post
It can work for platformers too. Maybe not in level design, but in the amount of enemies in a level, giving them smarter/more aggressive A.I., and in how many hits it takes to kill them. Nintendo could also make Mario take more damage per hit (i.e. one hit = instant death). It can be done.
WTF?
New trailer:
http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/indiana-jones-and-the-staff-of-kings/indiana-jones-and-the-staff-of-kings-videos/1299470
Enemies in platformers are largely incidental, except bosses, I guess. They are there to emphasize a particular aspect of a level, not because they are paramount to its design. I would say that level design is what defines difficulty in platformers.
WTH?
PSP version?^
With the recent announcement that Lucasarts are working on Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings for Wii, DS, PS2 and the PSP, many people wondered what had happened with the “next gen” version of Indiana Jones that was highly boasted about a few years back, and if development of that game was happening, albeit quietly, concurrently with Staff of Kings.
However, this seems not to be the case, as Lucasarts have now confirmed they’ve decided to work solely on Staff of Kings, making a “strategic business decision” to end development of the 360/PS3 versions.
“We want to bring consumers an Indy experience in 2009 following the successful launch of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull in 2008,” comments a LucasArts spokesperson. “The next-gen skus would not be ready for the 2009 window so we made a strategic business decision to end development on PS3 and Xbox 360.”
The spokesperson goes onto add that fans should not fret, as they will be able to “experience an all new adventure with Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings on Wii, DS, PS2 and the PSP this coming Spring.”
http://darkzero.co.uk/game-news/development-ended-on-ps3360-indiana-jones/
Correct and Hamster, do not forget the DareDevil comets!
I agree that level design defines most ofthe difficulty in platformers, but it isn't the only thing.
I remember. Imagine if the entire game was just like that, though. It would've made Galaxy a much harder game. Selectable difficulty options could've made that happen.
GG likes to torment us.
Come on, its gone from looking horrifically bad to a fun distraction.
Pic comparison from early to later:
EDIT, they changed the source low quality pic
Did you watch the video? Riding elephants? The combat looks fun too.
EDIT: Remember it comes with Fate of Atlantis as a bonus.
Okay time for a second round of updates!
Wish me luck!
USA guys, Excitebots:
That guy is a badass.
He's funny as hell. I remember the GIFs Dvader showed me.
Oh yeah, nice work Iga.