Foolz said:
OH SHIT. HERE WE GO AGAIN.
darthhomer said:Foolz said:
OH SHIT. HERE WE GO AGAIN.
If only, the lack of meltdowns is disappointing.
LOL gamespot
The uproar is probably smaller than TP recieving an 8.8. 
If you would have asked me what Reviewers would have issues with Zelda before the reviews were in, I would have told you it would be Giant Bomb, Gamespot, G4, 1up, Gamepro and EGM. So predictable they are.
Foolz said:The uproar is probably smaller than TP recieving an 8.8.
The series is really not as relevant as it once was and that too me is far more sad than a low score.
Dvader said:The series is really not as relevant as it once was and that too me is far more sad than a low score.
There's nothing sad about the low score, but a low score is not as entertaining if there isn't mass outrage. Not as relevant? Yeah that sucks if it means people aren't enraged by low scores.
Dvader said:Foolz said:The uproar is probably smaller than TP recieving an 8.8.
The series is really not as relevant as it once was and that too me is far more sad than a low score.
I'm not sure if it's the series or the system. Most people have completely dismissed the Wii at this point. Me? I so can't wait for 12am Sunday morning.
I think its both Zelda and the system its on.
There's no doubt in my mind that many of Wii's games would have gotten ALOT more attention if they had the cutting edge tech of a strong console behind them. Basically everything not called Mario Galaxy, and even they would have. People have viewed the Wii as this oddball console from another time for years....in some cases, since it launched.
And Zelda....think back to Ocarina of Time's launch. At that time, there was no bigger or grander adventure game out there on consoles...or with better production values. It was the Skyrim of its time. Now we have all these other huge games with giant production values that are just as epic in size and scope if not moreso, so the wow factor of Zelda hasn't really been on that level in awhile.
If they had the cutting edge tech would they have existed, or with that power would the devs have just decided to copy bigger titles? Which is basically what the 360/PS3 library is filled with instead of shovelware.
Okay I played for about 3 hours and just finished the tutorial. Here are my impressions. I try not to spoil too much, but I will talk about the stuff you do in the beginning.
Well first there is the awesome intro with awesome music. Some people compared it too Windwaker intro, but the look and feel is totally different. After that you can choose a file to start the game. Immediately you feel that the pointer is not controlled by IR. It feels slower and more sluggish and less jittery. The pointer is so sensitive that small uncontrolled shaking of the hand can be immediately seen in the cursor, but not here. It works kinda like move where the gyro and accelerometers calculate the position of the cursor together with the IR that is used to give it a starting position (you are asked to point at the screen to calibrate the controller).
I fooled around this screen and while you can move the pointer pretty quickly it is not as fast as the IR pointer. Feels a bit like the IR pointer is going through some thick syrup. Kinda like my Master Thesis with the HapticMaster (which is infinitely more accurate than both the IR and motion controls). But alas it is just choosing a save and worked well enough. Sure pointer would have been a millisecond faster, but it does not matter for choosing a save file.
I also heard some criticism is GAF about the long tutorial, I hated that about Twilight Princess, especially during replays, so I thought I would pay special attention, to forced tutorials and length of the tutorials.
Like tradition you begin with Link fast asleep. Link is a lazy boy in all Zelda's is he not? After waking up from a nightmare, you start in your room. The cool thing is that you can do stuff like opening your closet and sit on chairs. I explored the room and went into first person by pushing 'c' on the nunchuck and 'Z' ofcourse is targeting and putting the camera behind Link. This was a bit weird, because in Xenoblade you center the camera behind you with 'c'. So I kept pressing 'c' to center the camera. So after a slight adjustment period I was fine.
The cool thing of the first person view is that you can walk around while using it. And again looking around is done with motion control not IR. Again it is slower than IR, but again you are just looking around so speed is not needed at all. I never had to recalibrate the 'motion pointer' because I am so much better than you bunch of jokers. Nah, I am just kidding, calling you jokers is giving you too much credit. Actually once you understand how it works, you never have to recalibrate. You see if you press 'c' the current position of the wiimote is the central position. So if you press 'c' while pointing the wiimote straight down, this will be your neutral position. If you tilt is up, the cursor will move upwards, point it back on the floor and the cursor will again be in its neutral position. Tilt it further downn so the wiimote starts pointing backwards and the cursor will move downwards. If you press down, then you set a new neutral position. See it as a mouse and you would not have much trouble. Point is to the screen and then press 'c' then it kinda feels like a pointer.
Again this is more sluggish than the IR pointer, but why did they not just use IR? Well there are two things this advantages of this control method. First, less jitter. IR pointer is much more accurate so all the shaking of the hand will translate to shaking of the cursor so the cursor 'feels' more stable. But they could have done that with IR and a filter that gets rid of high frequency motion. They probably used his method, because if you press 'c' while pointing the wiimote down, the cursor will immediately move down and you will look at the floor. This can be a bit disorienting. With this method you have your neutral position and you can move it from there. Each method had advantages and disadvantages. I would prefer the IR, because it is faster and with WM+ you can still make it work if you point away from the screen, as shown in Red Steel 2. But so far this method works perfectly, it is slower, but the speed is not needed at all. Of course I still need to test out the projectile weapons. I suspect that sniping enemies from far away will be easy because the pointer is very stable, but hitting enemies closer by might be troublesome, unless you can just Z-target them.
So after leaving my room, I walked around the knight academy. The were tutorials there, but they were all in a form of a small sidequest, like carrying barrels to the kitchen and they never were manditory. Like all Zelda games I love to walk around and smell the roses and talk with everyone. So I left and the academy and walked outside. Some guy asked my to Z target him and talk to him. I ignored him to see if it is mandatory, but it was not. But I talked to him anyway. I can't help it.
Outside I learned that Link is pretty fast while dashing. You can even climb the walls a bit by running into them. I like this mechanic. It give more verticality to the environment and no more rolling around to go slightly faster (only Goron Link has any business rolling around!) I did another tutorial sidequest that was not mandatory. After talking to some guy near a closed fence I got a sample of some new motionplus gameplay. Choosing replies.
Normally when you can choose between different replies, you simply choose the one you want with the pointer and press A. Not here. You just flick the mote to the correct direction and press 'A'. It sound weird but it is actually lighting fast. For example choosing with the pointer, you actually have to aim the cursor. Quickly flicking the mote gives a chance that the cursor will overshoot. Here you flick and you see a rubber band like thing and choose. I think weapons are chosen the same way. It is very quick and I think you eventualy get muscle memory and can choose the item you want by instinctively flicking the wiimote to the correct orientation. Also the status screen uses the flicking motion to switch pages, this works wonderfully.
So I went to find Zelda, but I was sidetracked by some stuff and try some climbing and platforming down at the bottom of one floating island. Climbing works great, by flicking the wiimote, link can jump around like a monkey. One of the worst part was that the climbing was too slow in Twilight Princess, but now you can really move. You have to watch your stamina otherwise you will fall, so there is some strategy involved. The route is took was actually an alternative route to the princess.
Apparently see really likes Link, she show her affection by pushing him of the cliff. 
Crazy bitch. But my bird is gone. So after some exploring the town and going is some people houses, I finally moved the story forward. No surprise who did it though, but I need a sword. Going to the sword smith and I have my sword. There is a tutorial that teaches you how to sword fight by cutting logs, but again not mandatory, but is looks fun, so I did it.
Now for the part we have all been waiting for, the sword controls. They feel really different than Red Steel 2 and Wii Sports Resort. Resort really allow near 1-1 movement, with crazy strikes, but it looses calibration quite easily. Red Steel 2 is not 1-1, but you can do any angle of attack and stabbing, plus different strength of attacks. Zelda has only nine defined swipes. Horizontal left to righ and right to left, Vertical up to down and down to up, the diagonals and stabbing. Also it feels slower and more deliberate. You wont be swinging like crazy, but more thinking of where and when to strike. The problem of Red Steel and Wii Sport Resort with sword fighting was that although 1-1, the strikes were basically divided in horizontal and vertical. Horizontal strike gets blocked by vertical block and vice versa. So in other words it was pretty simple. In Skyward Sword with the logs, some needed to be cut vertical, other horizontal, some diagonal, some needed to be stabbed. So the system is already more complex than those to games. I already know that some enemies needs a upward strike to flip over. Or some can be hit horizontal from left to right, but not right to left.
After finishing my tutorial I played around with the sword. Although striking has only nine defined directions, holding you sword is 1-1. You can even let is point backwards and it kinda looks cool like that. Also the spin attack is more responsive than before and the vertical spin look cool. So after getting my sword I went to save my bird. After fighting my way though a cavern, that had some music with wind instruments (again cool) I saved the red shoebill.
Now you enter your very first tutorial that is mandatory. It teaches you how to fly. Basically it works like the bird is Galaxy 2, only it is more responsive because of WM+. Like the bird in Galaxy 2 (Fluzzard, right?!) he kinda keeps losing height, but with a up flick with the more he gains altitude. It sound really horrible, but is works nice enough. Flicking the wiimote down will enter you in a dive, where you will go pretty fast.
After the short tutorial, you have the bird minigame that was shown on E3. Controlling your bird was really fun. I actually gained lots of altitude only to divebomb to grab the leading bird's statue. Only he took a left turn and I missed. 
I got the statue soon enough, and then I had to meet up with Zelda again. And again she pushed me, this time of a giant statue . I told you see was crazy! The game teached you how to skydive, after a few tries (with the first one ending with Link falling flat on his face) I succeeded. After some cutscenes, I woke up in my bed and saw Fi. After following here, I go the titular Skyward Sword and learnt the strike that shoots out a bolt of energy. And behold the tutorial is over.
If you really want to, you can finish the tutorial in under 15 minutes, maybe faster if you can skip the cutscenes. It is so much faster and streamlined than Twilight Princess. Again some people are simply overreacting.
I stopped here, because I had to train. Will play more tomorrow. The graphics are gorgeous BTW.
"The graphics are gorgeous BTW"
This is in desperate need of a qualifier.
Thanks Iga, good stuff so far.
Oracle of Ages/Seasons
Released: May 14, 2001
The second portable Zelda adventure was a strange experiment by Nintendo and Capcom, yes Capcom. A two game release, two full Zelda games each with a different focus and when both are beaten you unlock the true ending. One game, Ages was more puzzle focused and the other, Seasons was more action based. What is incredible is that each of these games turned out amazing in their own way. I bought Ages when it came out cause I am a huge fan of Zelda puzzles and this game did not disappoint. It has fantastic dungeons and an overworld filled with secrets. Ages allows you to travel through time giving you two overworlds to explore. Seasons allows the player to change the seasons, its not as drastic a change as changing times in Ages but it still makes for some good puzzles.
The game keeps the Link's Awakening formula including the side scrolling segments and Link's ability to jump. There is a whole ring system in place that allows for perks and there are upgrades to your sword and shield, take that Skyward Sword you are just borrowing from these games. While I don't feel these games are as good as LA, it's right up there and easily two of the best GBC games to ever come out.
Four Swords Adventures
Released: June 7, 2004
Well this is not a traditional Zelda game but it somehow still remains a really great game, even in single player. Four Swords Adventure takes the mini game introduced in the Alttp and makes a full game based around it. It had a horrible multiplayer setup using the terrible "connectivity" idea. Every player needed a GBA and a connector cable to the GC to play this game in multiplayer, good luck with that. While I am sure multiplayer was more fun this game still worked in single player.
The player takes control of four Links, they all follow your actions and you basically choose how they line up. The game has stages and is far more action oriented than normal Zelda games. Basically imagine if Zelda was like an action game, surprisingly its still fun. What works so well is that the stages are orginized like a Zelda game. You start in a town, go to the overworld, enter a dungeon, and back out to the overworld. There are puzzles mixed in that make use of the four Zelda mechanic as well as whatever item you get in that stage. FSA is an interesting experiment with the Zelda name and I think it is a successful one.
The Minish Cap
Released: January 10, 2005
Minish Cap is the only Zelda game made exclusively for the GBA and it was also co-developed by Capcom and once again they do a great job. Minish Cap uses the Wind Waker art ****and takes Link to a new kind of Hyrule, one where you shrink and explore the tiny world of the minish. Because of this the overworld feels totally fresh. There is also a new kinstone system in place where you find stones throughout the world, when a pair match they open up a new piece of the overworld for Link to explore. New items like mole mits and gust jar make the puzzles unique.
What I remember most of this game is how different this world felt from other Zelda games. Also I remembered that there were too few dungeons and outside the last few they aren't very memorable. I would say Minish Cap is not as good as LA or the Oracle games but again it remains a great entry in this franchise.
The Wind Waker
Released: March 24, 2003
Amazing how an art sylle can create so much controversy. The day the first pictures of Wind Waker were released Zelda fans were up in arms at how childish the game looked. Crazy to think that years later the art stylle is beloved and considered by many to be timeless. The game is absolutely gorgeous with animation that conveys emotion better than Zelda ever has.
Once again Nintendo breaks tradition and goes a totally new route with Zelda, this time removing the land based overworld we have all become used to and giving us an ocean. Link's loyal steed Epona is gone, now you have a boat, which is a king, yeah kind of weird. Link has control of the wind which he uses to control the boat. Wind Waker includes the best exploration of any Zelda game, I don't say this lightly, the game world truely feels like sailing the open seas and discovering small islands with treasure makes you feel like a pirate on a treasure hunt. But the biggest problem the game has is the wind control, making the player switch wind direction with a sort of song which takes too much time thus changing direction was a chore.
If only sailing was a breeze, it would have made the exploration near perfect. The game totally absorbs itself in a pirate theme; pirate ships fire cannons at you, treasure maps with X making the spot guides you to treasure, giant sea monsters pop out from time to time. The world itself gets explored like a treasure map, with each grid on the map having an island or some object worth exploring.
While the exploring aspect is masterful sadly the dungeons and on land stuff felt lacking. The entire game feels extremely easy, moreso than any Zelda game before. Many players will never see a death screen once in the entire 40 hour adventure. Enemies do so small amounts of damage which makes potions and even heart upgrades kind of useless. The dungeons felt simplistic as well with puzzles that were not that interesting and items that don't bring much new. There are only five in total making the game feel as if there was cut content which according to rumors it was. The final two dungeons have a partner mechanic where Link and a partner switch control to explore the dungeon and solve puzzles. This is a nice change of pace but doesn't really make the dungeons all that more memorable. It's still a lot of fun but not as good as the series is used to.
Wind Waker has such amazing moments and memorable characters. There is so much personality to this game that its hard not to fall in love with the game world. The music is once again majestic. I still remember the moment where I entered a black and white palace which was revealed to be the king's palace from Alttp, under the sea. It is a moment no Zelda fan will ever forget and a twist that really blew me away. It has such high highs but lows as well. None more infamous than the triforce fetch quest to end the game.
This is my least favorite 3D Zelda but its still what I would consider one of the best games of the PS2 era. Many feel this is the best 3D Zelda, for some its their favorite one period. This game continues the tradition of making each Zelda so unique in their own way, its the reason why the question of what is your favorite Zelda brings about such a wide range of answers.
I liked Star Fox Adventures more than Wind Waker.
Wind Waker does have sweet graphics, but I think the problem at the time was just many of the things going on with the Gamecube and how its look and appearance made it seem more kid oriented than the other consoles, and having gotten off to a slow start with software it desperately needed more adult-oriented exclusives at the time. Then, Nintendo showed Wind Waker. After having showed the Zelda 2000 demo, this is not the answer people were looking for.
On top of Nintendo's secretive ways, they gave the impression through the 1st few images released that the game WOULD be more kid oriented than fans wanted. And really, even the difficulty level wasn't as high as previous games in the end. I still like the game, but what prevented it from being a classic to me was the ridiculously tedious fetch quest before the end...something that IMO was close to destroying many of Nintendo's games at the time. Having to go fetch a few things is fine, but when you blatantly throw in a boring as hell hours long fetch quest to make your gamne seem longer than it really is, that is NOT fine. In the end, that was the problem for me...not the graphics or even the difficulty.
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks
Released: PH - October 1, 2007
ST - December 9, 2009
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks The Nintendo DS brought about an all new control scheme and of course the Zelda series is used to explore the control scheme to it's fullest. Both Phantom and Spirit are controlled entirely with the touch screen. No analog stick, not need of face buttons, it is all controlled with a stylus. I bold choice but one that worked. Moving Link is a breeze and the combat surprisingly works well. The biggest change comes from the tired and true Zelda items which are reborn with touch controls making them feel totally new. The boomerang is used in ways that make it feel like a brand new item. Bows, bombs, grapple hooks and more all get the same touch screen makeover. This translates into some of the most unqiue puzzles the series has ever seen but the two games are not equals.
Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to Wind Waker so it retains the sailing acorss the seas motif. In this game its much easier to sail as you simple draw your route and the boat follows your trajectory. The game world is far smaller than it's console brother and lacks the same exploration elements that made WW so special. PH created all sorts of controversy for having a central dungeon that requires Link to replay over and over after each dungeon. These dungeons had giant statues that hunted you down, Link had to hide from them as if he was in a Metal Gear game. The major problem is that you had to replay these sections over and over only making slight progress each time. The main dungeons themselves were not that interesting outside the cool use of items. All in all I personaly think Phantom Hourglass is the worst main Zelda game. It removed so many of the elements of what made Zelda great and did not expand well enough the new concepts of the touch screen.
Spirit Tracks on the other hand goes all out with the DS touch screen and introduces new items to create many of the greatest puzzles the series has ever seen. The dungeons are masterful, to me they rival what we have seen in consoles. The puzzles are so ingenious, injecting such originality to a series where the puzzles were getting predictable. To bad the way you get around the world is horrible, this game uses a train, yes literally on rails. It makes moving around the world a pain, which sucks cause the world is actually pretty interesting. Spirit Tracks has a central dungeon as well but this time your progress is kind of saved so there is no need to redo levels over and over. Also these sections are far more refined than the one in Phantom Hourglass.
Overall Spirit Tracks is the better game but both are interesting portable games that make great use of the systems capabilities. They are very different from what we are used to from Zelda, for that reason I don't like these two as much as other Zelda games but again great games in their own way.
LOL at that list.