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Super Smash Bros Melee
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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:59:10
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Okay, so I dug out my copy of Melee last night, and played it for a half hour before bed. I had the same experiance that I had when I first played it--it sucked. However, I started playing it again this morning, and I'm finally starting to figure out how to play this game.

The problem I had with it originally was that the controls are so different than any other fighting game that I'd ever played before, that I just couldn't understand how it all worked. I read the manual, and I still didn't "get" the controls. At first, it seemed to be nothing more than a button masher, but then I saw something that changed everything. I had the game running in demo mode while I was looking over the manual again this morning, and when I looked up, there was a video on screen explaining the basics of the controls. It was a Mario Vs. Bowser match, and during the round, the game would pause for a moment, display some controller movements, and then show Mario execute those moves on Bowser. After seeing that video, the game suddenly made sense!

So, I went into the training mode, and practiced some of the moves that I saw Mario pull off in that video. After 5 minutes or so, I started to feel confortable with the controls and moves. The only thing that still strikes me odd is using the Z-button for grab moves; why not Y or X buttons? Anyway, I also played around with all of the available characters in an  attempt to find one that I liked the best. I started off with Mario, Samus, DK, and even Yoshi, but none of them felt "right" to me. I then tried Kirby, and instantly liked playing as him the best. I could more easily pull off moves with him for some reason.

Now that I had a solid understanding of the basic controls, and a character that I felt confortable with, I started a Regular Classic Match (on very easy, of course).  I go into my first round, and I'm kicking ass and taking names. It's like I'd played this game for months. For the first time since I had Melee, I was actually enjoying myself. Happy

This experiance has proved to me that not all first impressions of a game may be accurate.

Side Note: How the hell do you attack the floating hand? I keep getting my ass kicked by this damned thing. Yes, even on very easy!

Edited: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:02:21

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:15:06
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Uh oh, you like Kirby. You and Godmode could form a club... of two. 

Nah, he's a great character with this stone stomp move thing. I can't remember if there is a training mode in this game like in Brawl, but it's good for practice with the characters. The good thing about Smash is that all the moves are performed in the same way so you dont have to learn endless button combos. Yet, all the moves have different ranges, uses, strength and timing. 

To beat the hand jump over him and do a strong attack down or get under him and uppercut heavy attack. 

You should consider getting the Wii version as it's a total upgrade, although Beaver may disagree. Top notch presentation and online play. That could take us up to 6 confirmed Brawl owners, but I know there are more here. 

It even has some stages and music from Melee, along with Snake and Sonic and their respective stages, all new stages etc. And a decently diverting single player 2-D sidescrolling romp. It's not amazing or anything but worth dicking around on. 

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:35:48
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I finally beat that floating hand. I love the credits at the end where you can shoot the names of the people who made the game. It's easily the best credits roll I have ever seen in a game. LOL I got 68 hits. Do you unlock/get anything if you manage to shoot them all? 

Yeah, I might pick up Brawl one of these days, but I don't think it'll be anytime soon. I'm just going to play this one for now, and get used to it first. Online play and additional characters are very tempting, but I'd just get my ass kicked playing online with you more experianced players. Maybe in a few months, though.

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:45:18
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You know I get the feeling that the only way I will ever get around to actually playing Brawl is if people want to arrange an online match. I'm not very good at Smash, but I don't care, that is what's good about the games. You play someone at Tekken and you get your backside kicked repeatedly and its not fun. If you are playing Smash and get some super hammer and stuff it's random and fun. 

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:50:53
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YES!!! A Smash Bros. thread!!! Grinning

It's great to hear that you're liking a Smash game now, Hamster! When you were describing it as just random button mashing, I was actually getting a bit annoyed, 'cuz it sounded like you were dismissing it without even knowing how to play it correctly. But now, all is good. Nyaa

It's very easy for me to recommend Brawl to you. As the action is slower and it has lots more characters and content in general, it's perfect for both beginners and for those who want more meat to their game. My own problems with it are primarily the different physics engine, which makes things much slower and floatier and characters can now randomly trip; character imbalance issues that I think exceed those of Melee; a music selection that could have been SO much better (however, it's still awesome); a boring (IMO) adventure mode, called "The Subspace Emissary"; and a stage creator that, while good, could be SO much better.

I was initially hugely disappointed with the game. If only it used the Melee physics engine, it would be a complete improvement over Melee. But not all people liked Melee's physics and fast pace. My best friend likes Brawl better because it plays more like the N64 Smash, for instance. So some people will, without reservation, say that Brawl is superior in every way. You'll just have to try it to see if you're one of those people or if you're like me.

But back to Melee.... Unlock all the extra characters, get set on characters you're good with, and practice until you can beat a Level 9 CPU character most of the time on every type of stage (but most importantly if you like to be fair to competition, the flat stages and those with a few platforms, such as Battlefield and Final Destination). It's not adequate preparation for fighting other human players, but it'll probably help you increase your speed and agility. As a matter of fact, I've read that some people on Smash World Forums (where many of the for-money tournaments are announced and/or organized) fight Level 8s instead of 9s, I guess because they're not as stupid or repetitive with their tactics.

Watch this video. The account is that of Gimpyfish, who's a pro tournament Melee player. The video shows high-level players in action. Definitely better than I could ever do.

If you ever need any info on Smash, check out SmashWiki or Smash World Forums. Or you can ask me, since I enjoy talking about these games. Nyaa
Edited: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:17:57

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:17:27
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Ravenprose said:

So, I went into the training mode, and practiced some of the moves that I saw Mario pull off in that video. After 5 minutes or so, I started to feel confortable with the controls and moves. The only thing that still strikes me odd is using the Z-button for grab moves; why not Y or X buttons?

For grabs, you can either use Z or A+R/L. If you go the latter route, you might want to press the shoulder button (whichever of the two you prefer) a small fraction of a second before A. You can also come straight out of shielding with a grab by using the second option.

Note on shielding: Melee has two types of shields: dark and pale. Darker shields can take more damage I think, but they shrink faster and therefore won't stay out as long. You can use that shield by fully depressing the shoulder button (R or L). The light one can be activated by slightly depressing the shoulder button, or by pressing Z, although with the latter option you'll do a grab before going into a shield (Brawl doesn't have this shield because the Wii remote doesn't have analog buttons). Warning: trying to initiate the grab in either way will make your character drop any item he/she might be carrying.

As for tossing, letting go of, and picking up items.... The A button always picks up items on the ground. As far as I know, that's the only way. In the air, you might be able to do an A+R/L to grab an incoming item, but make sure you don't fully depress the shoulder button or you'll do an air dodge instead. Also, you might want to press the shoulder button before A or you might end up attacking... which is bad if you're trying to catch a live Bob-omb, for example. Z can also be used in mid-air to catch items. I think the only time that might do something unwanted is if you're playing with, say, Link, Young Link or Samus, where they can use their Hookshot/Grapple Beam in the air to grab onto ledges. To let go of an item, let go of the control stick and press either Z or A+R/L. To toss an item, do either of those two things, but while tilting the stick in the direction you want to throw. You can also smash toss an item, which is especially nice with the Homerun Bat. For that, just tilt the stick like you would for a smash and press the aforementioned buttons.

Either X or Y can be used to jump, besides pressing the control stick up. Personally, I use X all the time and never use the stick for jumping. Two ways to grab and three ways to jump... don't complain. Nyaa

Edited: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:23:48

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:44:47
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More like Super Casual Bros. amirite?
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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:51:22
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Rawng!

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:58:29
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Coopersville said:
More like Super Casual Bros. amirite?

Ain´t that cute, but it´s WRONG 

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:01:38

Angry_Beaver said:
YES!!! A Smash Bros. thread!!! Grinning

It's great to hear that you're liking a Smash game now, Hamster! When you were describing it as just random button mashing, I was actually getting a bit annoyed, 'cuz it sounded like you were dismissing it without even knowing how to play it correctly. But now, all is good. Nyaa

It's very easy for me to recommend Brawl to you. As the action is slower and it has lots more characters and content in general, it's perfect for both beginners and for those who want more meat to their game. My own problems with it are primarily the different physics engine, which makes things much slower and floatier and characters can now randomly trip; character imbalance issues that I think exceed those of Melee; a music selection that could have been SO much better (however, it's still awesome); a boring (IMO) adventure mode, called "The Subspace Emissary"; and a stage creator that, while good, could be SO much better.

I was initially hugely disappointed with the game. If only it used the Melee physics engine, it would be a complete improvement over Melee. But not all people liked Melee's physics and fast pace. My best friend likes Brawl better because it plays more like the N64 Smash, for instance. So some people will, without reservation, say that Brawl is superior in every way. You'll just have to try it to see if you're one of those people or if you're like me.

But back to Melee.... Unlock all the extra characters, get set on characters you're good with, and practice until you can beat a Level 9 CPU character most of the time on every type of stage (but most importantly if you like to be fair to competition, the flat stages and those with a few platforms, such as Battlefield and Final Destination). It's not adequate preparation for fighting other human players, but it'll probably help you increase your speed and agility. As a matter of fact, I've read that some people on Smash World Forums (where many of the for-money tournaments are announced and/or organized) fight Level 8s instead of 9s, I guess because they're not as stupid or repetitive with their tactics.

Watch this video. The account is that of Gimpyfish, who's a pro tournament Melee player. The video shows high-level players in action. Definitely better than I could ever do.

If you ever need any info on Smash, check out SmashWiki or Smash World Forums. Or you can ask me, since I enjoy talking about these games. Nyaa

That video is really cool, and shows off how combos can work in the game which is something I've been wondering about. I'll check out those other sites too. 

I'll look into getting Brawl. One of the problems I'm having with Melee is that the game moves so fast that it's hard to time moves just right.

Angry_Beaver said:
Ravenprose said:

So, I went into the training mode, and practiced some of the moves that I saw Mario pull off in that video. After 5 minutes or so, I started to feel confortable with the controls and moves. The only thing that still strikes me odd is using the Z-button for grab moves; why not Y or X buttons?

For grabs, you can either use Z or A+R/L. If you go the latter route, you might want to press the shoulder button (whichever of the two you prefer) a small fraction of a second before A. You can also come straight out of shielding with a grab by using the second option.

Note on shielding: Melee has two types of shields: dark and pale. Darker shields can take more damage I think, but they shrink faster and therefore won't stay out as long. You can use that shield by fully depressing the shoulder button (R or L). The light one can be activated by slightly depressing the shoulder button, or by pressing Z, although with the latter option you'll do a grab before going into a shield (Brawl doesn't have this shield because the Wii remote doesn't have analog buttons). Warning: trying to initiate the grab in either way will make your character drop any item he/she might be carrying.

As for tossing, letting go of, and picking up items.... The A button always picks up items on the ground. As far as I know, that's the only way. In the air, you might be able to do an A+R/L to grab an incoming item, but make sure you don't fully depress the shoulder button or you'll do an air dodge instead. Also, you might want to press the shoulder button before A or you might end up attacking... which is bad if you're trying to catch a live Bob-omb, for example. Z can also be used in mid-air to catch items. I think the only time that might do something unwanted is if you're playing with, say, Link, Young Link or Samus, where they can use their Hookshot/Grapple Beam in the air to grab onto ledges. To let go of an item, let go of the control stick and press either Z or A+R/L. To toss an item, do either of those two things, but while tilting the stick in the direction you want to throw. You can also smash toss an item, which is especially nice with the Homerun Bat. For that, just tilt the stick like you would for a smash and press the aforementioned buttons.

Either X or Y can be used to jump, besides pressing the control stick up. Personally, I use X all the time and never use the stick for jumping. Two ways to grab and three ways to jump... don't complain. Nyaa

Wow, so much cool info! Thanks, Beaver! This will help me out a lot. The game is a lot deeper than I had originally thought. It's like discovering a new world. I want to explore and try everything out, but there's so much stuff that it's a bit overwhelming.

Yeah, I saw that  A+R/L grab move in the manual, but I couldn't pull it off correctly most of the time. I'll try that split-second timing with the R and A buttons. That's probably what was messing me up. I was trying to press them simultaneously.

I didn't know you can pick up items in mid-air. That's cool. I hadn't figured out throwing yet either. I did it by accident several times, but didn't really know how. LOL  I'll have to work on that.

Oh, I'm not complaining about the Z button assignment, it just seems odd to put the grab there, and have Y and X buttons both doing the same thing. I've also been using X for jumping.

I haven't gotten into a fighting game since Soul Calibur II. It's been far too long.

Edited: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:10:18

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:08:55
MELEE!

I love that game. Easily my favourite Cube game ever made.

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Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:42:32
I used to play as Kirby too.... when I sucked

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:53:19
Ravenprose said:

I'll look into getting Brawl. One of the problems I'm having with Melee is that the game moves so fast that it's hard to time moves just right.


But the thing is, if you get good at playing at that speed, you'll probably be really satisfied with your skills. Grinning
My mains in Melee are Ganondorf (first) and Marth (second). Ganondorf is one of the slowest characters, but he's also one of the very strongest, and I pride myself in being able to make him move fast. Marth is one of the faster characters and he has great reach, speed, and variety in his moveset. The guy who is considered the world-renowned King of Smash, Ken Hoang, was/is a Marth user, and used him to incredible effect, making it known that Marth was an excellent character.

Unfortunately, both Ganondorf's and Marth's grab ranges were drastically reduced in Brawl, with Ganondorf's almost completely useless.


Ravenprose said:

Wow, so much cool info! Thanks, Beaver! This will help me out a lot. The game is a lot deeper than I had originally thought. It's like discovering a new world. I want to explore and try everything out, but there's so much stuff that it's a bit overwhelming.

Yeah, I saw that  A+R/L grab move in the manual, but I couldn't pull it off correctly most of the time. I'll try that split-second timing with the R and A buttons. That's probably what was messing me up. I was trying to press them simultaneously.

I didn't know you can pick up items in mid-air. That's cool. I hadn't figured out throwing yet either. I did it by accident several times, but didn't really know how. LOL  I'll have to work on that.

Oh, I'm not complaining about the Z button assignment, it just seems odd to put the grab there, and have Y and X buttons both doing the same thing. I've also been using X for jumping.

I haven't gotten into a fighting game since Soul Calibur II. It's been far too long.

Smash Bros. is what I'd call a party fighting game--I'd say it's even less of a fighter than Mario Kart is a racer, since in no other fighting game I'm aware of are you supposed to beat your opponents in the traditional Smash way.

For the A+R/L stuff, you can just hold one of them for as long as you want and when you press the other, the move will come out. It's not like you have to press them simultaneously or nearly so. Whether or not the buttons are both depressed at the same time is what's important. That's why I noted that what's nice about A+R/L grabbing is that you can be using your shield with R/L and then come out of it immediately to do a grab by pressing A. You don't have to let go of R/L.

If you let the game run at the title screen without pressing anything, one of the things it'll go to will be that Mario and Bowser control demonstration, as you saw. There's also a second video that'll come on if you keep waiting. I don't remember if it's in that video or in the video under Archive (hopefully I'm remembering correctly), but there's a scene where two Donkey Kongs are jumping up and down and tossing a Bob-omb back and forth, which of course uses mid-air item grabbing.

About air dodging: It's done by fully depressing R/L while in the air. In Melee, you can use the stick to actually dodge in a particular direction while in the air, which is really nice. It's what allows for the advanced technique called the Wavedash. If you're interested in knowing about advanced techniques, check out the wiki. Wavedashing and other advanced techniques are supposedly the only reasons Ganondorf can perform well in tournaments (although I don't tend to use any of these techniques because I haven't been forced to and I fight the computer most of the time). Anyway, back to air dodging. Be careful you know what you're doing, because the only influence you'll have over your character after air dodging is the ability to control the direction it falls in--you can't attack, double jump, or more importantly, grab ledges after an air dodge. Brawl is entirely different, as you can pretty much do anything after an air dodge... including grab ledges, and even do more air dodges! The bad part (IMO) is that the air dodging is entirely momentum-based, which means you have much less control over the direction of the dodge.

Have you done much rolling? Just press R/L and the control stick left or right. You can also do a ground dodge by pressing R/L and the control stick down. These are pretty handy techniques.

Adventure mode is pretty cool in Melee. Brawl's (Subspace Emissary) is ok, but it's way too long and the platforming parts don't suit characters designed for combat, as Smash characters are.

Edited: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:40:14

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:15:18
Yarcofin said:
I used to play as Kirby too.... when I sucked

So you're still using him? Nyaa

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:46:39

Super Scope! LOL

Now that is cool! I probably wouldn't have noticed that if I hadn't been playing around with the zoom/camera features.

Oh, and I'm playing as Link now. I like using him instead of Kirby. Kirby still rocks, though!

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:41:28
Stone stomp is hilarious.

I play as Snake with my cousin (we paya Brawl when we aren't out bowling) and he just floats up and stone stomps constantly. It's hilarious.

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:30:06

Yodariquo said:
Yarcofin said:
I used to play as Kirby too.... when I sucked

So you're still using him? Nyaa

 Touché.

Nah, I'm just convinced you are one of the best video game players ever and I'm not really as bad as I think I am, it's just in comparison to the most 1337 players out there LOL

There's 2 things you just don't challenge Yoda at: Smash Bros, and CHESS. (And perhaps J-Pop trivia Nyaa)


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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:52:45
I mained Link until I unlocked Marth. One of my best friends during high school was (and I'm sure still is) a Marth user and I thought he was pretty good, so I started using Marth. He's a really great character. Hurry up and unlock everyone! Nyaa

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:07:22

I still having trouble with the air dodging, but I'm getting better. It seems that when I fall off the level, I tend to freak out a bit, and not hit the buttons right. Then down I go into oblivion. Sad 

I really like Link's bomb-throwing move. I was fighting against Pikachu once, and I accidentally tossed the bomb straight up in the air. Noticing my mistake, I jumped back quickly, and the bomb landed right on Pikachu's head. BOOM! LOL That's my new move now.

Hey, is the lag in Brawl's online mode really all that bad?

Edited: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:08:18

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Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:24:25

Ravenprose said:

I still having trouble with the air dodging, but I'm getting better. It seems that when I fall off the level, I tend to freak out a bit, and not hit the buttons right. Then down I go into oblivion. Sad 

I really like Link's bomb-throwing move. I was fighting against Pikachu once, and I accidentally tossed the bomb straight up in the air. Noticing my mistake, I jumped back quickly, and the bomb landed right on Pikachu's head. BOOM! LOL That's my new move now.

Hey, is the lag in Brawl's online mode really all that bad?

 Not really! I had mostly smooth/little lag matches. Only a few were unplayable!

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