Dvader said:

Awesome post, that firt paragraph is exactly how I feel. I still dont remember when did Japanese games get the lable of Japanese games. Its so weird to me, Japanese games to me are the most traditional games around.  At some point all of a sudden the whole industry decided that Japanese games are weird or something. It bugs the hell out of me, I find 5 million FPSs on consoles weird, I dont find DMC or RE weird. It happens all the time with any Japanese game, reviews mention how "this game has antiquated japanese gameplay" What THE FUCK.  The whole constant circle jerk of western this and western that gets so annoying, no western games are no better and they do a ton of stupid shit as well. They are different, but apparently we live in an age where if the game doesn't have a twin stick controls or some online mode or allows you to make a pointless choice in the story, its weird and japanese.  

Not to say they cant learn from each other, the issue is that one way does not make a game great. Its not as clear cut as some journalists make it out to be where oh western shooters are far superior and all shooters should be like them. Or when someone plays a FF game and wonders why he can't affect the story why is the game not open ended and bashes the game cause of it, its just not that type of game.

That's exactly how I feel and I didn't even realise till you pointed it out. FPS and racers are now considered the norm and many Japanese games are a weird sort of minorty now.

aspro73 said:

They should make the kind of games that will sustain their development industry. If it were not for SquareEnix buying up these companies many of them would no longer be around.

Why?  Because they lost revelence with their audience.  They stayed the same, their audience changed, both domesitcally and in the west.

Now having said that, I'm talking about developers in general.  I think the great "directors" like Inafune, Kojim and Suda should keep making their style of game, and not change for purposes other than to satisy their own creative muses.

I think this gen Japenese devs weren't sure about platform choice. PS1 and PS2 they went all out. Then they expect PS3 to succeed (see the Capcom quote in the thread) then gradually that doesn't pan out and they turn westwards, ignoring Nintendo. Then Nintendo has success with some weird games like Brain training and everyone assumes that that is all the audience cares about - wrongly. Wii sales are flagging in Japan because the big name content isn't being made for that market.

In the past Japanese devs catered to their own market first and then took what was successful there and it became successful overseas. Now with Nintendominiation rather than doing what they've always done, make great, polished, core games on the most popular platform, they are all over the place. Guys are making Genji or massively expensive JRPGs on the least receptive platform to them. Then you have the niche developers who dont have resources so make niche games on Wii just because its low budget.

Another thing I'd like to mention is a game like RE4. It was made as RE game, its by a Japanese team and it caters to everyone and yet its seen as a western style game I suppose. Just like Final Fight or SF. Sometimes I think that Japanese devs are thinking too hard and not giving themselves enough credit for what they've done and what they can do. Kojima is right though, Japanese games are design led, while some western games are now technology led. I prefer the design led approach myself.

Punk Rebel Ecks said:

No.

I thought this was your subject, part of why i posted it!

SUDA too was talking about GTA alot. If I want a GTA game I will play a game from the masters of doing sandbox openworld. But Suda, how many other developers could have made something as unique as Killer 7?

I dont want the japanese to stop making stuff like Killer 7 and only doing mainstream western titles.

Disaster Day of Crisis is hilarious though, like MGS a Japanese take on Western action movies with japanese high melodrama. You almost get this weird systhesis of Japanese anime/movie ideals and melodrama with american high produciton, explosions etc. Fun as hell.

This is what I was talking about. Look what Level 5 have to say:

On Xbox 360 and PS3 in particular, the site asked if the current situation is due to a combination of there being two platforms as well as there being fewer users who want HD than was initially expected.

Hino's response was that perhaps the hardware has evolved beyond what most users want. It's not the users who need the advanced capabilities of the 360 and PS3, he explained, but the developers who are unsatisfied with future development. In other words, the developers are a few steps ahead of the users in their feeling of "I want to make something even better," and the hardware was made around the opinions of those developers. Thus, he doesn't believe the blame lays on the hardware manufacturers, but on the developers.

Developers get excited when being able to make something really neat, explained Hino. However, players want something of more pure fun than this. This is why the Wii has sold better than the other two platforms. "It's a truly difficult era."

Level-5 appears to have a fix for the difficult times. "As a publisher, we can't just not develop for consoles. We considered quite a bit and have now pretty much decided on the direction that should be taken. We were able to make many popular series like Professor Layton, Inazuma Eleven, and Ni no Kuni. We will use such series as weapons to evolve our console business."

ASK_Story said:

It depends really.

To me, Resident Evil 5 is a great example that appeals to both west and east. It sold extremely well in Japan and is selling well here. But how come Lost Planet or Dead Rising didn't sell so well in Japan? It has zombies and shooting which is what RE5 is. And Lost Planet has mechs! LO also came out on the PS3 so how did it sell there?

Anyway, Capcom has it right on, I think. They really read the market and it's really paying off when all the other Japanese developers called them crazy like going 360 exclusive. Actually, it was Inafune who took that chance and now he's got the last laugh. Inafune is the man this gen!

I have mixed feelings though, like JRPGs. Do you think keeping things too Japanese and traditional is killing current-gen Japanese RPGs? Like Infinite Undiscovery, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata, Tales of Vesperia, and especially Last Remnant. Are these games too Japanese in its style? Do you think that JRPGs need a overhaul and the developers should try to learn something from the Fallout 3's or Mass Effects? It's not working too well because these games have been 360 exclusives and none of them really took off in both Japan or the west. So what are they doing wrong?

Last Remnant for example, is a funny game because Square-Enix claimed it was a game that was supposed to be more western and mixed with traditional Japanese RPG styles. But the game turned out to be too traditional with JRPG cliches and poor storytelling with broken gameplay. The only thing appealing about the game was the Square-Enix name. But it didn't do too well. The game is already $29.99 while Fallout 3 is still full price.

It's either Japanese developers don't know how to make a western/eastern hybrid RPG or they're too scared to try something new and break out of their own box. Maybe they're too proud and don't want to admit western developers are becoming superior in making RPGs? I don't know.

At the end I still prefer JRPGs over WRPGs since I grew up with them. I'd rather play Tales of Vesperia than Mass Effect for example, but I still admit western developers have surpassed Japanese developers even in RPGs. It's just the style and taste that's different, but when it comes to development, story, and technology, the west has the edge.

There really is no fix though because the market is always Japan first before the west. With the anime culture JRPG developers will probably always try to play it safe and stay traditional. What I think JRPG developers have to do is  sacrifice the Japanese market, stay away from anything that has to do with anime, and come up with a western style RPG. Because not everyone has the name Final Fantasy to rely on. This is what they should do try something new and maybe be more successful in the west.

Capcom always had it right, before this gen. Nothing has changed. Only Inafune acting like the oracle and pimping the success of his two titles that were matched by lower cost, yet as successful Wii titles they put out.

As for JRPGs, yeah that is the bread and butter of japan and I dont know if MS moneyhatted most of the exclusive JRPGs or whether Japanese devs were caught off guard with PS3s relative failure in their own region, or them simply not trusting Nintendo because of the old first party vs 3rd party debate. They seem all over the place. That's why people say that Capcom look good, because they've been consistent. SEGA seems more like a western publisher like EA these days more than the japanese development powerhouse they used to be.

Konami is all Metal Gear and football. Namco is Tales Tales Tales, Soul Calibur.

Bizaarely Nintendo has probably got the Capcom consistency plus the curve ball non-games that appeal worldwide. On the whole though I get the impression that there are a lot of Japanese devs still not knowing what the hell they should do with themselves.