Eh, the fact you "have to use the internet" and create things "outside" the game is what allows for the versatility of mod creation... You get the full SDK and use programming languages that can be used in other applications, meaning the time taken to learn the creation process is worthwhile beyond that one game. So, no, there aren't many games that "integrate" everything like LBP does, but that's because it's best not to do that. They also don't have you unlock shit as if mod creation is a game, you usually get instant access to anything and everything the developers created and can also create new content, models, textures, animations, whatever to import, once again using tools and processes useful beyond that one game. All that is the reason many mod creators go on to become professional or indie developers. Anyway, it's not exactly hard to find and install mods for games where the creation side was popular, and many come with easy to use installers like any full game does.
If you're someone willing to work to create this will hardly be an insurmountable barrier. Not to mention you can find these long after the game has stopped being supported, since they don't need to go through any company's servers and are offered on many different file websites. That LBP handles it all that way is simply part of their desire to be in full control, as console manufacturers tend to be, and essentially limit what's possible. You have things like Game Maker and RPG Maker and Game Factory and whatever other applications that try to make game creation "easy" on PC but those tend to either be mere stepping stones for aspiring developers or they also integrate advanced scripting languages and content importing functions for those who get past the drag & drop interface capabilities, or at least want to learn something useful if they decide to dedicate a lot of their time.
There's really no contest, no matter what you want to create, PC has it covered. From the various engines' level editors, to free modeling and texturing programs, to SDKs, to open source engines, as parts of games, or completely stand alone. Unless you want to create LBP stuff.
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I am not asking which one offers more creative feature, I am saying they are not the same animal. LBP is a game built entirely around the "mod" aspect. PC games are not. RPG maker and the like are the closest thing to LBP but even them dont have the sharing and the community aspects that LBP do.
Vader, I'm getting deja vu pangs. Didn't you do a thread which was Metroidvania vs Classic Castlevania?
Blast Works: Build, Trade, Destroy
Blast Works
On June 27, 2007, Majesco issued a press release announcing a Wii version of TUMIKI Fighters, titled Blast Works: Build, Trade & Destroy.
Added to the game is a 2-4 player cooperative mode, ship and level editors, and a "Hangar," which allows players (while inside) to purchase various ship upgrades; the building itself can be defended from attackers, via the motion controls of the Wii Remote. WiiConnect24 elements will also feature in the game, including online leaderboards and the swapping of custom ships and levels among friends.[2]
The game disc will, in addition to Blast Works, also contain playable versions of rRootage, Gunroar, and Torus Trooper (other games made by Kenta Cho) as unlockables, in addition to the original TUMIKI Fighters itself.[3]
Editor
Blast Works comes with a powerful editing tool that allows extensive customization to the game. Players can construct their own ships, enemies and bosses with the editor, as well create their own backgrounds.
When designing enemies, the player can manipulate projectile patterns, sound effects, movement patterns, hit boxes, and more in the Ship Editor portion of the Blast Works Editor. The player also has the option of fully customizing the ship that they play as. For example, the ship builder lets the player view their ship from many different angles, allowing them to add new pieces, such as wings or weapons, simply by adding shapes to their ship. The basic shapes can be combined to create even more complex constructs, and there are a few moving shapes the player can add to give their ship a bit more life. The player is also given full control over the size, shape, and color of any object they create. This ranges from their main ship to buildings created for custom levels and even enemy craft.
The level designer (the same tool the game's developers used to create the built-in levels that come with the game) also features powerful capabilities. The player can set the basics, such as color scheme or background, then drag and drop enemies into their custom level from either a list of pre-built enemies or custom ships previously created. The player can also set trigger events that can change the orientation of your ship, the behavior of enemy ships, or the movement of the game camera. The player can also add a number of different special effects to their level such as a Virtual Boy-like effect, which turns everything in the level to red and black, or a water effect, to make background oceans or the level itself appear underwater. After constructing a level, the player can preview it before importing it into the game.
Sharing content
Majesco has set up a website (www.blastworksdepot.com) specifically for players to upload (after registering) and download user-created levels, shapes, objects, and enemies from the website to their Wii. Users can browse by levels, enemies, or shapes, with all content including a thumbnail preview and a rating.
RELEASE DATE: June 10, 2008
Little Big Planet release date: October 27 2008
Vader where is your God now?
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No. If you cant access the levels through the game its not the same.
Dvader said:I am not asking which one offers more creative feature, I am saying they are not the same animal. LBP is a game built entirely around the "mod" aspect. PC games are not. RPG maker and the like are the closest thing to LBP but even them dont have the sharing and the community aspects that LBP do.
Communities still form around PC games, and rather strong ones to boot, they just don't have to do so through some game interface and instead use stuff that function a bit like, uh, this website. The mod aspect isn't a game, it's a creation process, and plenty devs put just as much focus on that, if not more, as providing a game themselves. Hence why games like Half-Life which are otherwise a limited single player experience and lackluster multiplayer end up with a much longer shelf life than is normal for any platform. I really don't see why you think it's so different just because instead of accessing the internet through an in game menu to search and download stuff from you do so via your web browser. Anyone able to install the game is able to get and install mods for it, it's all just basic computing.
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Agnates said:Communities still form around PC games, and rather strong ones to boot, they just don't have to do so through some game interface and instead use stuff that function a bit like, uh, this website. The mod aspect isn't a game, it's a creation process, and plenty devs put just as much focus on that, if not more, as providing a game themselves. Hence why games like Half-Life which are otherwise a limited single player experience and lackluster multiplayer end up with a much longer shelf life than is normal for any platform. I really don't see why you think it's so different just because instead of accessing the internet through an in game menu to search and download stuff from you do so via your web browser. Anyone able to install the game is able to get and install mods for it, it's all just basic computing.
Because the game designers themselves did not make a game around modding. Valve made HL, they gave the tools to the community and that is about it. I am sure they help out when they can but its not the game. I dont consider mods part of Half-life, if I buy HL I dont get that within the game.
The entire game of LBP is built around creating and sharing. Everyone, not just people with knowledge on computing can make levels. I guarantee that more than 50% of the people who have played HL have never played a mod level in their life. Everyone with LBP that has an internet connection has played a user level cause it is part of the actual game.
Its not about which is better, they are two different animals.
Dvader said:^
That's it?! Just because you have to visit a website it does not count? The whole game is created around creating and sharing just like LBP. LPB streamlined the sharing content a bit more, but the rest is exactly the same. You are grasping here.
Grasping indeed. And level making alone doesn't require much knowledge for HL or Unreal either. Just design sense and some dedication. You're probably wrong about people who play HL and mods considering how Counter-Strike took off but I'm not gonna make up statistics to make a point. Although 50% of Half-Life owners are plenty more people than 100% of LBP owners. Anyway, that was a mod, and only adopted by Valve after its popularity exploded. LBP includes a game with its own levels as well as the tools, Half-Life included a campaign as well as the SDK. Same difference. Valve even released Team Fortress Classic for free to show people what's possible with the SDK. Later they made a couple more mods like Deathmatch Classic, a Quake homage, and Ricochet. Rereleases of the game in stores also came with all this included. With the advent of Steam many of the popular mods got official pages on there as well, although only a few Half-Life 2/Source mods can be auto installed directly through it. The series has been as much about modding as it has been about the single player universe Valve created. The same goes for Unreal although that came with its own scripting language, but nowadays with how popular the engine is it's also useful knowledge beyond the one game (or now free UDK) you'll be modding.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds while the pessimist fears this is true. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Oh God, not this discussion again.
Someone needs to...modify this discussison.
hurhurhur.
Agnates said:Grasping indeed. And level making alone doesn't require much knowledge for HL or Unreal either. Just design sense and some dedication. You're probably wrong about people who play HL and mods considering how Counter-Strike took off but I'm not gonna make up statistics to make a point. Although 50% of Half-Life owners are plenty more people than 100% of LBP owners. Anyway, that was a mod, and only adopted by Valve after its popularity exploded. LBP includes a game with its own levels as well as the tools, Half-Life included a campaign as well as the SDK. Same difference. Valve even released Team Fortress Classic for free to show people what's possible with the SDK. Later they made a couple more mods like Deathmatch Classic, a Quake homage, and Ricochet. Rereleases of the game in stores also came with all this included. With the advent of Steam many of the popular mods got official pages on there as well, although only a few Half-Life 2/Source mods can be auto installed directly through it. The series has been as much about modding as it has been about the single player universe Valve created. The same goes for Unreal although that came with its own scripting language, but nowadays with how popular the engine is it's also useful knowledge beyond the one game (or now free UDK) you'll be modding.
I own Half-Life, I see no editor included with the game. I start the game and it tells me Start game, Online multiplayer and options. No where does it show level editor. And that is the key difference. HL has the mod stuff as an EXTRA, stuff for the dedicated to find and try out. LBP is a game designed entirely around the concept. Two different animals.
Where did I say it does that? Meh, whatever, same difference and a better implementation and capabilities to boot. If you want a level editor in the options screen there are plenty games before LBP, like Tenchu, Trackmania, etc.
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Iga_Bobovic said:That's it?! Just because you have to visit a website it does not count? The whole game is created around creating and sharing just like LBP. LPB streamlined the sharing content a bit more, but the rest is exactly the same. You are grasping here.
The second you have to leave the game to do something you lose the majority of users. You are not going to get many people to participate if you make them go through a lot of trouble to access the content, only the dedicated will check it out.
Agnates said:Where did I say it does that? Meh, whatever, same difference and a better implementation and capabilities to boot. If you want a level editor in the options screen there are plenty games before LBP, like Tenchu, Trackmania, etc.
You are trying to compare mods to LBP, so therefore you are implying that the mod creation tool is imbeded into the game. And yes there have been games with level editors built in, but do they allow instant uploading and downloading of millions of levels through the game. Is it all streamlined, no.
And if you want to believe that going off to websites, learning how to operate some mod tool through various website faqs and such is better implementation that having it in game with an in game tutorial, be my guest. But that is crazy.
Dvader said:so therefore you are implying that the mod creation tool is imbeded into the game.
Uh, no I'm not. I'm saying it doesn't matter if it's embedded or not. Because it doesn't, as long as it's avaialble. You're telling me that LBP would be a whole different thing if it was exactly as it is, but to fire up the editor you went to the PS3 dashboard and selected it as its own application separate from the game. That's absurd.
And yes, extensive SDK tools are better than automated, limited by design editors, which aren't LBP exclusive.
And no, "using the internet" isn't some insurmountable barrier as you seem to think.
And no, a little extra streamlining doesn't make anything a whole different beast.
And stop making imaginary stats up about majorities and 50% and whatever, please.
Modable PC games > LBP. Factoid.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds while the pessimist fears this is true. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Agnates said:Uh, no I'm not. I'm saying it doesn't matter if it's embedded or not. Because it doesn't, as long as it's avaialble. You're telling me that LBP would be a whole different thing if it was exactly as it is, but to fire up the editor you went to the PS3 dashboard and selected it as its own application separate from the game. That's absurd.
And yes, extensive SDK tools are better than automated, limited by design editors, which aren't LBP exclusive.
And no, "using the internet" isn't some insurmountable barrier as you seem to think.
And no, a little extra streamlining doesn't make anything a whole different beast.
And stop making imaginary stats up about majorities and 50% and whatever, please.
Modable PC games > LBP. Factoid.
Yes LBP would be a different animal if you had to exit the game to access an editor not part of the actual game. Its not absurd, it is reality. If its not IN the game, it is not part of the game. What makes LBP so special is that everything in game works together around the concept of playing, creating and sharing. PC games like HL and the majority of mods are not like that. To claim they are the same shows some ignorance as to what LBP is trying to do.
LittleBigPlanet is not like PC mods, its not trying to be like PC mods.
Please God make it stop.
gamingeek said:Please God make it stop.
I know you like it.
I wish you were in Epic Mickey. I would use the thinner on your moustache!