Forum > Non-Gaming Discussion > Philosophy Wank: Is Self Expression Narcissistic Behavior?
Philosophy Wank: Is Self Expression Narcissistic Behavior?
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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:07:12
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This is what I've been struggling with.  What do you guys think?

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:10:06
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I think it is, at least to an extent. But I don't consider that a negative trait. Furthermore, I'd wager at least some degree of narcissism is required to a healthy personality. 
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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:16:50
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In that light I guess people like coding and encoding.  They talk so they can listen to voices other than thier own, and that is healthy.  

But you have to assume that what you say is worth listening to to begin with, and that is kind of self-centered.

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 01:05:26
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It's a good kind of self-centeredness, at any rate. Someone who believes he's got nothing of worth to say probably has self-esteem issues. Or clinical depression. 
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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 03:29:33
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SteelAttack said:
It's a good kind of self-centeredness, at any rate. Someone who believes he's got nothing of worth to say probably has self-esteem issues. Or clinical depression. 

Though depression can actually act to view the world more accurately.

But you're in the right place.  I hate talking specifically about myself.  Opinions, great, but me, no.  It makes job searching an aberration.  I'll highly self-conscious, and cut things I say short in the rare event that I say more than a few words.

But I spend a couple hours a week not just talking freely, but recording it and advertising it.  It's not the expression, it's the meaning.  It's the words.  We do the podcast because it's fun, not because people are listening, and not because we think of ourselves as better, and I would suspect that you listening aren't thinking that we're egotistical dicks the entire time (okay, bad example).

Simplifying, though, if you're not expressing yourself, who else are you going to express?

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 03:45:30
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So, what you are saying is that some communication is the transmissin of data, not self-expression, and therefore it's not egotistical.  It's a process driven action.

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 05:20:07
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Communication is to provide information, that information may or may not be egotistical in nature, and it may or may not be communicated in an egotistical manner.

Expression is to communicate an emotion.  The source of the emotion may be egotistical in nature, but the expression not.

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:10:43
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Okay, well breaking that down a little, I'd say that all communication provides information, but not all communication is intended to provide information.  Which is the same thing you are saying to an extent when you say that not all information communicated is egotistical in manner.

Taking a step back though, we have taken the conversation ahead a little, and that may be my fault.  I'm just talking about expression, not communication (which the succesful act of encoding and decoding).  The original question was: Is the act of expression (just the encoding) also a pure act of ego.

Is it an act of narcissism to come to this site and express that Iwata interviewed some Nintendo developers about Game and Watch?  I'd think that we'd all agree that on the face of it it would be ridiculous to think so.  But if you look to the intent it may be.  What if my sole goal in relaying that information was to bring attention to myself?  (hey I warned you this thread was a wank!).

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:37:35
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Maybe, but philosophically masturbating certainly is. Nyaa

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:20:41

aspro said:

Is it an act of narcissism to come to this site and express that Iwata interviewed some Nintendo developers about Game and Watch?  I'd think that we'd all agree that on the face of it it would be ridiculous to think so.  But if you look to the intent it may be.  What if my sole goal in relaying that information was to bring attention to myself?  (hey I warned you this thread was a wank!).

It certainly is. Even selfless behavior, both over the internet and IRL, can be aimed towards recognition/validation from your peers or superiors. Of course, the fact that there is such a possibility doesn't necessarily means that it always happens like that.

Through our only chance of interaction over an internet board (posts), we aim to gain recognition, to be acknowledged for what we are (or we are not), and gain respect from people we might never meet. That certainly is narcissistic, at least to an extent.

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 22:48:48
SteelAttack said:

It certainly is. Even selfless behavior, both over the internet and IRL, can be aimed towards recognition/validation from your peers or superiors. Of course, the fact that there is such a possibility doesn't necessarily means that it always happens like that.

Through our only chance of interaction over an internet board (posts), we aim to gain recognition, to be acknowledged for what we are (or we are not), and gain respect from people we might never meet. That certainly is narcissistic, at least to an extent.

But to define narcissism in that way is to declare the term meaningless.  Just like art, if all things are narcissistic, nothing is.

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Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:58:29
^I understand what he is saying though.   If you did not want to express yourself on this site, you could enjoy it to a degree by never logging in and lurking.  But one day, you'll see something that you have an opinion on and want to express yourself.  That act relies on a self-esteem level that is high enough to warrant the thought that what you have to say on a topic is worth reading by others.

I have come to the conclusion that not all expression is narcissistic though.  Back to my earlier example, posting a story about Iwata is not narcissistic.  Commenting about the story in the boards is an act born from self importance, but not narcissism.


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Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:08:41

I should note that I am using the term in an extremely loose sense, which is definitely improper, but at least somewhat adequate considering the scope of our discussion. That's why I stated previously that every healthy personality has to have some degree of narcissism (which should be understood as a proper, healthy measurement of our own importance). In this context, what aspro identifies as narcissism becomes nothing more than the perception of self-importance or value.

If I was to adhere to what narcissism actually means, from a clinical standpoint, then I would have to say no. Narcissistic personalities are characterized by an overwhelming sense of self-importance, and in most cases, that leads to varying degrees of social dysfunction. A true narcissist wouldn't even be able to conform to the mostly anonymous nature of almost all currently available venues for internet interaction, which more often than not yield lukewarm results (at best) regarding recognition or appreciation.

A proper perception of self-importance becomes narcissistic behavior when the subject berates or ignores everyone else around him/her, or demands recognition to a degree incongruous with the tasks performed, among other traits.

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Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:30:12

Everyone wants to be loved. Maybe the self expression is to gain approval and self worth?

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Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:32:08

gamingeek said:

Everyone wants to be loved. Maybe the self expression is to gain approval and self worth?

 And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Do you love me?

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Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:38:30

SteelAttack said:

gamingeek said:

Everyone wants to be loved. Maybe the self expression is to gain approval and self worth?

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Do you love me?

Not since you deserted me on Animal Crossing.

cat-talk-to-the-hand.jpg

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Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:28:34
You're not playing it either!
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Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:44:08

SteelAttack said:
You're not playing it either!

Only because you stopped.

Do a from scratch play through like you did on SMG and De Blob.

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Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:53:50

gamingeek said:

Only because you stopped.

Do a from scratch play through like you did on SMG and De Blob.

 I believe my wife and kids will strongly oppose to that. LOL 

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Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:49:12
Destroy the village and see what they say. Feign innocence, say it was a bug that reset it. Grinning

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