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Nintendo is Doomed: Analysis on the recent 'bombs'
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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:44:50
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PART 1: THE SOFTWARE

Recently on the back of NPD sales the media has sex-ploded with a zillion doomed stories the likes of which we haven't seen since the Gamecube era. It seems like there are a bunch of people just waiting for their chance to say "I told you so".

This whole sales paranoia is getting out of hand. On the one hand journalists point out and recognise the irregular sales patterns of games:

Wii Music sold 65,000 units in the U.S. during its October 2008 launch, but leapt to 4.5 times that number during November.

Call of Duty 4 for the Nintendo DS launched in November 2007 with only 36,000 units by had now reached LTD sales of 500,000.

Boom Blox sold 65'000 first month and now at a million.

And yet then they go on and analyse and doom new titles based on first month sales.

Let's go through the recent game sales.

DECA SPORTS

This game is crap and I'm glad that the market has cottoned on to it. Who wants a sequel, no one is the answer. Are you suprised it didn't sell? Hudson must have thought they struck gold with the first game, they did. Just like 2K did with Carnival games.

The first Carnival games sold over 3 million, Carnival games Mini Golf sold just over 500'000. Is it any suprise? How many of these uber casual (poorly made) titles do publishers expect people to buy? Are any owners of any machine going to be gagging for a yearly Carnival games update?

DEAD RISING CHOP TILL YOU DROP

LMAO! No analysis needed.

MADWORLD

What was the reaction when Okami bombed on the most popular platform out with a 100 million install base? I wasn't paying attention but was the platform blamed or did people recognise that the game just didn't have mass market appeal? Cel shading is NOT successful (with exception). Black and white is not successful, even in movies. Ultra violent is niche and to top it all off, it's a new IP. What were people's expectations, as anyone with half a brain could tell you it was going to be niche. The game you could most relate it to would be No More Heroes, another cel-shaded ultra violent game.

That game sold 400'000 and is SUDA's top selling game ever. Madworld would do well to hit that number. It may even do worse due to being black and white. But anyone who expected it to blow away RE5 sales is drinking too much paint thinner.

HOTD OVERKILL

Point one: it's a light gun game. Point 2: Sega say that they are "very happy" with the games sales which are "absolutely meeting our expectations". Admit it, you didn't see HOTD 2 and 3 return tearing up the multiformat charts did you? And yet quietly that game has hit close to a million sold on Wii.

So what is the media reaction here? That light gun zombie shooters don't sell on Wii? *buzz* Wrong. Umbrella Chronicles at 1.3 million sold, HOTD 2 and 3 return near a million. Both mature violent shooters. *ding ding ding*

Why else did we see Dead Space Extraction and Darkside Chronicles greenlit? Extraction will have the tougher job, it has no legacy to draw upon for fan service.

What else can we draw upon? Now hardcore games don't sell on Wii? What happened to Red Steel, COD World at War, two Resident Evil titles, Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid Prime 3 (1.5 million sold), Smash Bros with 8.5 million sold?

Wii has 50 titles that have sold over million copies. Yet the first month sales of a light gun game and an ultra niche brawler prove what exactly and why?

How are games like that suppossed to compare with sales in massive long running franchises and should we even expect them to?

The games with the biggest chance of succeeding are actually, sadly the ones which are japanese centric such as Monster Hunter 3 and DQ10 maybe even Tales of Graces. Unfortunately they dont do that well overseas and Monster Hunter is a franchise borne on a rival (portable) platform. I really can't imagine that your average PSP owner is a Wii owner.

GTA CHINATOWN WARS

Now this harder to shrug off. A triple AAA title, a huge franchise and poor first month sales. However, I know for a fact it's doing better in Europe.

I think Rockstar could have scaled the game back to a T rating. When I first played the game, it has cartoony graphics and cutscene art. Really they didn't need to go as far as say cutting out a mans heart with a knife and having blood splash everywhere. And they didn't even need the F-bombs. The game is great as it is. As a gamer I appreciate them going all the way, but as far as business decisions go, the M rating probably pushed the game away from a segment of the market who probably really would have liked to play it.

In demographic terms the DS probably does have a younger demographic, but it also has an older one too. But those are the guys playing brain training and professor layton. I have no doubt the game will do well in the long term, but at the moment it's up to gamers to buy this game. We've got so many great titles out lately it's almost oversatured at the moment and people are having to prioritise which titles they want. I think that some gamers have come off a few big titles and dont have the cash to spend on what they see as a lesser, handheld experience. Whether they be wrong or not. Let's hope this game has a rosy future.

It's also been pointed out to me that the 3-D GTAs have sold much better than the 2-D ones and from appearances this DS game appears to (visually at least) have a lot more in common with the old games.

Lastly Gamestop said:

“GTA: Chinatown Wars is exceeding our expectations and illustrating the power of the franchise on a new platform,” GameStop spokesman Chris Olivera said in an e-mail to MTV News. “We’ve seen a solid lift in sales of ‘Chinatown Wars’ following the launch of the DSi and believe that the product will continue to enjoy a long life at our stores as the buzz around the new handheld gaming experience continues to grow.” Nintendo’s DSi model of the DS platform was released a day after NPD’s sales-tracking window for March.



NEXT UP IN PART 2: THE HARDWARE
Edited: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:46:21

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:12:20
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PART 2: THE HARDWARE

JAPAN SALES

So firstly lets start with the lesser news. The PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan in March and the story is below.

Yakuza 3 and Resident Evil 5 helped the PlayStation 3 outsell the Wii in Japan during March for the first time in 16 months.

Sony's flagship console notched up 146,948 sales while Nintendo's premier platform managed 99,335 sales, according to Enterbrain figures posted on Reuters Behind, but not embarrassingly so, was Microsoft's Xbox 360 with 43,172 sales.

The aforementioned games - Yakuza 3 and Resident Evil 5 - take home first and second place, respectively, in the software stakes. The other key titles are not disclosed.

Whether PS3 can maintain momentum without key releases remains to be seen, although KOEI's Warriors Orochi Z picked up the slack one week.

So it led 1up to post a story about a possible Japanese Wii crash when added to Deca LOL Sports 2 first day sales.

Look at this reporting:

Kinks in the system's shiny white armor starting showing last month. Despite steady success in Japan, the Wii fell into second place in March as the underdog Playstation 3 clambered atop the region's sales charts for the first time in 16 months. That was enough to garner some uncharacteristically somber comments from Nintendo President Satoru Iwata, who deemed the climate in Japan "unhealthy" for the Wii.

A yahoo article again painted the crash idea, bubble bursting analogy. Saying that in Japan things can change "in a heartbeat". It's since been pointed out that looking at both systems Japanese install base, along with current weekly Japanese sales it would take years for the PS3 to even catch up with the Wii install base in that territory.

So for a month and a half, PS3 has outsold Wii. Not by a huge amount, but for 16 months straight Wii has outsold PS3 and has an install base roughly double or more in the region. So a couple of months of sales means teh doom and teh gloom. Japan is a small territory, yes the UK is a larger market now and is handheld focused and is probably saturated with Wii's by now.

And yet with the lack of Japanese support (where are the big franchises on Wii?) how can we be suprised at all about hardware boosts when sequels in big name franchises launch? The fifth resident evil, the third Yakuza, the fifty billionth Street Fighter. These are all long established brands with cache, we should all be suprised when FFXIII comes out in winter and the PS3 sales rocket too right?

How can the industry or publishers expect a system to indefinetly sustain sales if they don't support it with great games? If they want it to die then they are doing a great job right now of trying to make it happen. It's more of a miracle that the system hasn't yet bombed.

NPD sales:

For March Wii sales dropped 17%, curiously that's the same amount that sales as a whole dropped across NPD compared to this time last year. Anita Frazier, NPD Mistress put it down to the Smash Bros effect.

Still March of 2009 and selling over 600'000 units? And this leads Nintendos shares to go down and all this doom and gloom talk?

More than the competition combined (again). It's all doom and gloom. Meanwhile the xbox 360 has like a 30% NPD boost and still comes out at just over half of what the Wii is selling and it all smells of roses?

What the heck is going on here? These doom and gloom stories are just restablishing the notion I have that most people, actively want this curve ball of a system to die so that their "proper" system can be the success they feel it deserves.


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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:24:06
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It's a fad.
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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:40:15
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Nintendo is the anti-bomb. While you could argue that they are single-handedly destroying the "old" gaming industry, meaning that they don't care much for appealing to young men's strong yearning to shoot things, they are inarguably winning this generation by a longshot. When you can expand out of the typical 12 - 30 age bracket from gamers, and move towards 6 - 60 year olds,  that's probably a good thing.

Now that they've reeled people in, they need to start pumping out some quality before everyone starts getting buyer's remorse. That doesn't necessarily mean hack and slash gore-fests, but they need quality games. What Nintendo is doing right now is taking awesome ideas and ruining them by oversimplifying (ie. Cooking Mama.) On one hand this gets a more casual audience into things, but it will also be short-lived. Nintendo is still finding the right balance between "simple enough anyone can pick it up", and yet still being challenging and interesting to the rest of us.

It's kind of a branch-off in the gaming industry, where Sony and Microsoft are staying somewhat loyal to the old gaming model, while Nintendo is moving towards a platform almost soley based on arcade-style games and minigame collections.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:37:41
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Anyone freaking out about the hardware is either dumb or has been waiting for any glipse of a drop to jump all over the Wii. It will continue to sell and become the most successful console ever.

On the games side, yeah it has good software sales, for some reason people dont get this. The problem is that its not RE4, MGS2 or MGS3, FFX or XII, GTA3 or VC or SA, the ratchet series, SOTC, DMC, Tekken, VF, GT, or whatever other billion million sellers the PS2 had. Its not those huge games every one loves thats selling. Obviously you got the Nintendo stuff and some cool gems selling but a lot is the mini game party stuff. Thats why there is such a negative view put on the Wii software sales. I honestly believe its not whether games are selling, its which games are selling.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:20:59
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Holy crapola, this is what I was talking about:

Yahoo-games-UK front page games blog

The ‘Wii Crash' of 2009

Is the honeymoon over for Nintendo and its high-profile games console? Global trends seem to be pointing that way.

We've known for many years that to predict the next wave of videogame fanaticism you need only look to the East. If the Japanese are falling over themselves to buy the latest and greatest gizmo you can bet the farm on feeling the shock waves on a high street near you further down the line. Lately Apple's iPhone is bucking that trend with popularity swelling from the US and across Europe, but we sense it'll take something more affordable to seriously challenge Nintendo DS. However until lately it seemed that Nintendo Wii was infallible, but reports are coming in showing first signs of weakness. Most worrying for Nintendo is how sudden the interest has waned.

The wave of videogame popularity usually rocks Japan first, then the US and finally across Europe and the rest of the world. We've no facts and figures to comment on Europe just now, so going back a step we can talk about what's happening Stateside.

According to Bloomberg Wii sales have dipped 17 percent year-on-year in the US, and this has led to Nintendo shares falling seven percent. DSi is still going strong but you could argue that this is a different market entirely. Again, good luck to the iPhone in halting the march of Nintendo's friendly household handheld.

Japan is where the cracks are starting to show most visibly, however. Recent hardware sales figures are downright pitiful for Nintendo Wii. Last week Wii barely outsold the beleaguered Xbox 360 with 13,349 units versus 10,134 respectively. PlayStation 3 and PSP are now pulling ahead and gaining momentum in Japan, which is still by far the most discerning market in the world for videogames. Even the latest PlayStation 2 games are outperforming Wii Fit in the Japanese Top 10. And this time Nintendo can't blame stock shortages for the dip in form.

By now, and judging by the ongoing failure of anything other than Wii Fit to dominate the UK Top 10, it's fair to accuse Nintendo Wii of being a two trick pony. Folks are picking up Wii to play Wii Sports and Wii Fit and that's about it.

The biggest game on the horizon is a sequel to Wii Sports, "Wii Sports Resort" released in July. But if Japanese sales of a sequel to another best-selling sports title on Wii Deca Sporta (aka Sports Island in the UK) are anything to go by, Wii Sports Resort could nose dive spectacularly. Deca Sporta 2 sold only three percent of its total shipment on day one, roughly 2500 copies, whereas the original opened with 50000.

What with the shares slump and a lacklustre line-up ahead for 2009 this has prompted the leading Japanese technology website Watch Impress to run a feature on Nintendo's change of fortune having a knock-on effect worldwide.

We can't see a way out of this for Nintendo, apart from a hardware upgrade bringing high-definition versions of existing best-sellers. Maybe ‘Wii2', or ‘i-Wii' or ‘Wii-i'...?

Are you becoming weary of Wii too?

On the one hand they say: Wii fit being outsold by PS2 games in Japan shows the system is failing. Then they go on to say Wii Fit dominating the UK charts each month is a bad thing? Pick a side. This article is like every doom prophecy rolled into one.

On the one hand no one expects this expensive non-traditional game to sell. Then it does, really well for like a year, at an expensive price point. And then people don't know whether to complain or not. Christ.  

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:36:06
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That article is pure shit. Thats something Grammaton or Carnage would write. LOL

Why do these people get paid for this. I bet Pachter is sitting around going "I knew this time would come!" and is pulling out his magic graphs of the PS3 taking the worldwide lead in 2011.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:57:43
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Yarcofin said:
What Nintendo is doing right now is taking awesome ideas and ruining them by oversimplifying (ie. Cooking Mama.) On one hand this gets a more casual audience into things, but it will also be short-lived. Nintendo is still finding the right balance between "simple enough anyone can pick it up", and yet still being challenging and interesting to the rest of us.

Majesco did Cooking Mama. What you said though is an important point and something I'd like to touch on in part 3 and 4 of this thread. Part 3 being predictions for upcoming games and part 4 being what developers should probably do to succeed. Part 4 is very important and should be a lot clearer.

Dvader said:

Anyone freaking out about the hardware is either dumb or has been waiting for any glipse of a drop to jump all over the Wii. It will continue to sell and become the most successful console ever.

On the games side, yeah it has good software sales, for some reason people dont get this. The problem is that its not RE4, MGS2 or MGS3, FFX or XII, GTA3 or VC or SA, the ratchet series, SOTC, DMC, Tekken, VF, GT, or whatever other billion million sellers the PS2 had. Its not those huge games every one loves thats selling. Obviously you got the Nintendo stuff and some cool gems selling but a lot is the mini game party stuff. Thats why there is such a negative view put on the Wii software sales. I honestly believe its not whether games are selling, its which games are selling.

Firstly you have huge sales of traditional games, 4.5 million for Twilight Princess, 8.5 million for Smash Bros, similar sales for Galaxy. 3 million for Animal Crossing. There is no question that the 4.5 million Zelda owners are not casual soccor moms right?

One would assume that the 4.5 million Zelda owners would be receptive to a Zelda type game right? Like BGE last gen sold most on Cube.

But on top of that once you look outside of the top tens of various systems sales, the patterns are quite similar and there isn't much difference. And there are lots and proper Wii games with great sales and even games with smaller sales that can be deemed a success and spawn sequels because of the economics. Games like De Blob and No More Heroes are good examples.

As far as I'm concerned, you need to bring large franchise material and cross promote it well to be guaranteed of a good sell. There is no point spinning off a franchise and releasing it a year later when nobody wants it. Or developing a niche, new IP and expect it to explode, they very rarely do.

So when I see big games selling big on other platforms I'm not suprised. But if they aren't bringing those franchises to the Wii, they can't then act suprised when the sales of their second rate efforts dont work. I think a great many people are actually glad that Soul Calibur Legends and Castlevania Judgement bombed.

But the reporting is interesting. There are big HD flops (Prince of Persia, Condemned 2, Too Human, Lair, Haze) and more. When they don't sell people just dont turn around and blame the system en masse. When Banjo Nuts and Bolts flopped you saw the odd story but there wasn't a story on every website saying:

Xbox 360 fails families: Banjo Bombs

Recent sales of Banjo Kazooie Nuts and bolts proves that 360 is a hardcore fad and completely useless to people with more than teenage boys in the house. Are you tired of your 360? Let us know. Analysts have also predicted an Xbox crash.  

When Okami doesn't sell on PS2, a console with a 100 million install base, they don't blame the system, they just say that the game doesn't have mass market appeal. When Too Human bombs they don't then have a million stories about how the platform isn't receptive to RPG hack and slashers or how it proves anything and how unreceptive everything is.

I don't really understand how every gaming website in the world can so eagerly jump upon Madworld sales as proof of something and then completely ignore 2.8 million sales of Resident Evil titles, a million sales of Red Steel, over a million of Call of Duty etc etc, etc. + 46 other games that have breached a certain level.

You are on the money with sales. Games are selling on the system. In volume terms it has shifted more units of third party software than any other platform. Ubisoft gets a kick each year when their Rabbids sequels (shit, I just read) sell over 1.6 million each holiday season.

And it is about what games are selling and what games aren't. But there aren't proper blockbuster quality games (other than Nintendo first party) games being made for the system to gauge response. So when I see analysts and developers and media critics pinning the future of 3rd party support on a black and white game, or a game about spiders, or a slow burning ultra violent on-rails game..... I just cannot understand it. According to IGN, people are anxiously watching Deadly Creatures sales? Are these same people, idiots?

When companies approach the system with anything like the right attitude: Red Steel, Call of Duty World at War. A blockbuster approach. They acheive high sales.

No one can explain to me how 1.3 million sales of Lost Planet and Dead Rising is a spectacular hardcore success of an experiment and how the same sales of a Resident Evil lightgun shooter made at a far lower cost (Lost planet cost $40 million bucks, $20 million just to market) is not.

The sales of LPlanet and DRising are enough to spawn huge budgeted next gen sequels. Apparently all the sales of Umbrella Chronicles did was spawn other companies on-railing their mature games and the same company trying to pull the same trick twice.

What did RE4 Wii edition spawn? Cash for capcom and a couple of old GC ports. Great. Just great.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:02:19
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Dvader said:

That article is pure shit. Thats something Grammaton or Carnage would write. LOL

Why do these people get paid for this. I bet Pachter is sitting around going "I knew this time would come!" and is pulling out his magic graphs of the PS3 taking the worldwide lead in 2011.

I just checked on that Yahoo games articles figures for Japan. Here is what they say repeated:

Recent hardware sales figures are downright pitiful for Nintendo Wii. Last week Wii barely outsold the beleaguered Xbox 360 with 13,349 units versus 10,134 respectively. PlayStation 3 and PSP are now pulling ahead and gaining momentum in Japan, which is still by far the most discerning market in the world for videogames.

What they fail to point out is that the whole market was in a slump that week. Wii barely outsold 360? Well yeah and PS3 barely outsold Wii. So they're all pitiful sales then.

PlayStation 3 - 16,701 Nintendo Wii - 13,349 Xbox 360 - 10,134

Here is some interesting info:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/barrons-nintendo-shares-oversold

Barron's: Nintendo shares oversold

Financial magazine Barron's has reported that Nintendo shares are oversold, and that the Japanese company's strong growth is expected to resume later this year.

According to a Reuter's report on the full Barron's article, investors have sold Nintendo shares prematurely, causing an artificial deflation of the company's share prices.

Nintendo shares were hit after the company reduced its expectations for the 2009 fiscal year in January, due mainly to Japan's weak economy and the declining performance of the Wii in Japan.

According to the report, which was released over the weekend, Nintendo has beaten profit expecations for the year ending March 2009, bringing in USD 5.6 billion in operating profit.

Analysts expect that Nintendo earnings will rise in fiscal year 2010, and that overall videogame sales will rise as soon as the second half of 2009.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:12:26

gamingeek said:
But there aren't proper blockbuster quality games (other than Nintendo first party) games being made for the system to gauge response. So when I see analysts and developers and media critics pinning the future of 3rd party support on a black and white game, or a game about spiders, or a slow burning ultra violent on-rails game..... I just cannot understand it. According to IGN, people are anxiously watching Deadly Creatures sales? Are these same people, idiots?

This. That is the key to eveything right there. Everyone is waiting for a third party game to sell huge in the NPD for the Wii, they are waiting for that blockbuster game. But how can it happen if there are practically none for the wii. As you have stated, Madworld, HOTD, Deadly Creatures would never sell like crazy anywhere.

You know what the Wii is kind of like, imagine if the PS2 only had third paty games like Okami, God Hand, Odin Sphere, Fatal Frame, RE Gun Survivor. Wouldn't it be the exact same thing the Wii is going through now.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:14:20

Dvader said:

I bet Pachter is sitting around going "I knew this time would come!" and is pulling out his magic graphs of the PS3 taking the worldwide lead in 2011.

I can see this being their huge Powerpoint presentation for E3. It's all about the types of games like you two just said.   No one can stand it that Carnival Games makes a killing because they feel there are only certain games that deserve big sales.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:43:53

travo said:

Dvader said:

I bet Pachter is sitting around going "I knew this time would come!" and is pulling out his magic graphs of the PS3 taking the worldwide lead in 2011.

I can see this being their huge Powerpoint presentation for E3. It's all about the types of games like you two just said.   No one can stand it that Carnival Games makes a killing because they feel there are only certain games that deserve big sales.

That's true to an extent right now. Sony just pulled out the PR saying that the big franchises are performing comparably well on the system.

Sony: PS3 Attach Rate For Blockbusters Is Higher

http://gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23186

Ahead of an upcoming interview with Sony's Peter Dille, the company has detailed to Gamasutra a series of examples from major blockbusters, from Street Fighter IV to Grand Theft Auto IV.

The statistics are intended to suggest that not only are unit sales fairly similar on both platforms -- but that the PlayStation 3 actually has a higher per-title attach rate.

Dvader said:

gamingeek said:
But there aren't proper blockbuster quality games (other than Nintendo first party) games being made for the system to gauge response. So when I see analysts and developers and media critics pinning the future of 3rd party support on a black and white game, or a game about spiders, or a slow burning ultra violent on-rails game..... I just cannot understand it. According to IGN, people are anxiously watching Deadly Creatures sales? Are these same people, idiots?

This. That is the key to eveything right there. Everyone is waiting for a third party game to sell huge in the NPD for the Wii, they are waiting for that blockbuster game. But how can it happen if there are practically none for the wii. As you have stated, Madworld, HOTD, Deadly Creatures would never sell like crazy anywhere.

You know what the Wii is kind of like, imagine if the PS2 only had third paty games like Okami, God Hand, Odin Sphere, Fatal Frame, RE Gun Survivor. Wouldn't it be the exact same thing the Wii is going through now.

OMG, what you said just there just blew my mind with how pure and right that notion is. Mind blown. That's what it is and no one even realises it.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:52:38
Im so glad we have this site. You make this thread at GS and it gets raided by haters in no time.
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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:05:30

Dvader said:
Im so glad we have this site. You make this thread at GS and it gets raided by haters in no time.

 Copy and paste it over there and see what happens?

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:14:43

Iga_Bobovic said:

Dvader said:
Im so glad we have this site. You make this thread at GS and it gets raided by haters in no time.

Copy and paste it over there and see what happens?

I know what will happen, Carnage will say its cause the Wii is all about casuals, yeah cause games like Madworld, HOTD, Deadly Creatures are so casual...

Grammaton will just go on a rant on how crappy the wii is, on how Madworld would sell so much better elsewhere, how Wii owners ignore all good games that dont have Nintendo on it.

GME would agree with one of them.

Angel will try to make a good point and someone will call him a dumpster loving bum.

Same thing over and over.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:38:32

Iga_Bobovic said:

Dvader said:
Im so glad we have this site. You make this thread at GS and it gets raided by haters in no time.

Copy and paste it over there and see what happens?

Oh God no. Then I get trolled and I can't even respond.

BTW I read this blog on Gamasutra earlier and he brings up a GREAT point. Multiconsole Wii owning gamers dont exist in a bubble. Madworld isnt just competing with the Wii library, it's up against the recent flurry of big name releases on other systems.

During the Christmas period a lot of games got lost in the holiday rush, Prince of Persia, Mirror's Edge, Banjo etc. We all attribute it to there being a lot of competition. If the same bears true here and Wii games don't exist in a bubble (for instance gamers on this very site prioritising some games over others) then we could just as easily argue that after the rush of SFIV, RE5, Halo Wars, Killzone 2 et al, games like Madworld were going to have a hard time going after people's hard earned cash.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/IanFisch/20090417/1183/Why_quotThe_Conduitquot_Will_Have_Trouble_The_Wii_and_Hardcore_Games.php

How many hardcore gamers do you know?  How many of them own Wii's?  If the answer is “most”, then you probably support a basic premise of my argument - that a ton of hardcore gamers own the Wii.  

It's difficult to find data to support this claim because the obvious way of proving it would be to show evidence that a lot of hardcore games sell well - which we obviously can't do.  Based on sales data alone, one could argue that hardcore the hardcore install base for the Wii is small.  Yet if we take a step back and look around us we can see that's not the case.  

Assuming hardcore gamers own the Wii, it seems odd that hardcore games on the platform are not selling better.  Perhaps the answer is that hardcore gamers do not exist in a vacuum.Hardcore gamers who own the Wii are also likely to own either an PS3, an Xbox360, or a suped-up PC.  

When a hardcore Wii game is released, it doesn't only compete against other Wii games; it competes against all games.  So MadWorld isn't just competing against Disaster: Day of Crisis.  It's competing agaisnt Ninja Gaiden 2 and Grand Theft Auto 4.  Suddenly it doesn’t stand out quite as much.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:47:51

gamingeek said:
If the same bears true here and Wii games don't exist in a bubble (for instance gamers on this very site prioritising some games over others) then we could just as easily argue that after the rush of SFIV, RE5, Halo Wars, Killzone 2 et al, games like Madworld were going to have a hard time going after people's hard earned cash.

Totally correct. If I only had a Wii guess what, I would have Madworld right now. But I dont, and I wanted RE5 and Killzone 2. Its not as confusing and different as so many people make the Wii situation out to be. Some aspects about it are different, like why some of the blockbuster games aren't coming out. The actual pattern of the selling of games is not crazy on the Wii, its actually rather normal.

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:55:13

gamingeek said:

Iga_Bobovic said:

Dvader said:
Im so glad we have this site. You make this thread at GS and it gets raided by haters in no time.

Copy and paste it over there and see what happens?

Oh God no. Then I get trolled and I can't even respond.

 Why? Vader would not tell it was from you. 

Dvader said:

Iga_Bobovic said:

Dvader said:
Im so glad we have this site. You make this thread at GS and it gets raided by haters in no time.

Copy and paste it over there and see what happens?

I know what will happen, Carnage will say its cause the Wii is all about casuals, yeah cause games like Madworld, HOTD, Deadly Creatures are so casual...

Grammaton will just go on a rant on how crappy the wii is, on how Madworld would sell so much better elsewhere, how Wii owners ignore all good games that dont have Nintendo on it.

GME would agree with one of them.

Angel will try to make a good point and someone will call him a dumpster loving bum.

Same thing over and over.

Yes, but you are expecting it and you can tell Archhobo that you are basically flame baiting, so he does not have to interfere. It would be fun to see if they are really as predictable as you think. I can't do it, because the fact that I only own a Wii would open me up for personal attack and I am still trying to lure people here. Oh maybe someone else should do it?

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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:40:30
I think Vader is right.   Too many haters at GS.  Well, it would be interesting to see their reactions.
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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:44:28
I'm like Vader.  I'd have Madworld in a skinny minute if I just owned the Wii.   There are too many 360 games that are really appealing to me at ther moment.
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